UPSC Civil Services Exam 2012 Final MARKSHEET OUT
  • @Vibin , @kainat09 and others

    Note : A sincere request to the People who attempted mains/interview (both cleared and not cleared) please read this carefully and don't take any of this personally in anyway and get angry at me. I have tried in the past to make this point (in both forums and real life) but was shunned for it but now since i have some facts on my side i have decided to speak up.

    Why am i posting this
    For a few weeks when i started preparing for UPSC i was planning on Psychology and sociology as optional even though i am from engg background and didn't know much about these subjects, but after some sincere and though research i realized its best if i took the subjects loved(math and physics) instead. But from the day i decided at least 100-200 different people from the bald guy in jawahar book store to a guy with single digit CSE rank a few years ago suggested i should go with pub ad and socio like everyone else. There are few bets and challenges based on me clearing with math optional too. I was made fun off being my back and in short totally ostracized by majority simply for not buying the Bull shit myths about the superiority of some optional over others.

    Was UPSC playing favoritism based on optional in 2012 mains???
    A FAT BIG NO.
    In fact the reality is exactly the opposite of this.

    First of all we know choosing optional based on statistics alone or on recommendation by a coaching center staff or some friend/senior who didn't clear or appear, is a very dangerous and stupid move,
    Hope no one here has chosen their optional this way. But If you did and didn't score as you expected even though you worked hard, then you will be able to totally relate to this...

    the optional subjects which large number of people took produced consistently good results because of one reason "COACHING".
    By this i am not referring to only coaching centers in Delhi, but to all the methods of learning a subject only for UPSC exam without any proper basic understanding of the subject.
    In short if you studied a optional for UPSC exam alone(like some engg taking pub ad or from someone from a southern state taking pali lit) and never done any proper reading of that subject before (can't count school level compulsory subjects like history,geography unless you loved and enjoyed studying it (school marks in that doesn't matter) and remembered basic concepts before deciding optional). As the coaching factories pumped notes and strategies and memorized answers got decent marks till recently. But from the looks of it UPSC has started to seriously crack down "the coaching notes memorization approach"
    Seriously how many of the so called people with pub ad who faced injustice this year did their graduation in Pub ad or read even a single book related to pub ad not less than a year before deciding to appear for CSE...???
    for majority the primary reason for choosing these subjects (includes PALI Lit too) is
    "DO LESS WORK THAN "PEOPLE WHO TAKE THEIR FAV SUBJECT AS OPTIONAL EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT POPULAR" (like lit(only if its their mother tounge or their true passion) or science, etc...)
    AND
    SCORE MORE THAN THEM"
    This is simply GREED personified.
    I agree Coaching factories and peer pressure played a major role feeding this greed
    but no one can't make you greedy, they can only feed what is already there...
    They were taking advantage of a flaw in the system TAKE PUB AD OR PSYCHOLOGY AS OPTIONAL even though they don't have any particular interest in it AND GET COACHING FROM XYZ super star teachers from xyz coaching centers
    and magically score more than a person who is truly passionate/gold medalist or phd in lit of his/her mother tongue also as their optional...

    Even though we maybe very good honest and hard working in other aspects when we try to take a short cut in optional choice.
    its may work for a short while
    it may even last longer
    but it always ends at some point of time...
    "In life,There is NO shortcut to Happiness...”
    So you have two choices now
    either ignore what i am trying to explain and ostracize me..
    OR
    try to understand that when you made a choice based on greed you are bound for disappointment and heartbreak and decide what to do next only based on your strengths and skills and not for any coaching sir/madam who will assure that you can't get any less than 350 if you studied what he teaches you or some toppers choice or any thing else like that...
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  • ;) I've been studying for past 2 years now , literature , definitely took it would be advantage for my preparation . But when I realized its more than a subject , since I'd come to know more about my State's linguistic as well as its serene culture , I was hooked to learn more .

    Now I'm aware more than average person of my State , who could make bogus claim to know length and breadth of our State .

    Hope its clear now @Caartey :)>-

    NB:
    For the first time in my life I'm preparing to get marks , not just to acquire knowledge . :-B
    2015-->6th attempt || Going for the final kill .. !!
  • @Vibin
    Oh man... this was actually meant for the member who are outraged this year but where quite happy about previous years when their subject had an unfair advantage...
    The only reason i tagged you in this post is to add you to the conversation since you 2 where talking about the same topic in previous posts...

    And honestly i don't know even one user in this forum well enough to know reason for their optional choice
    My whole post is based on personal experience, interaction with other aspirants and observation of some conversations on the forum.

    And about literature, did you notice if you really enjoy studying it, you won't even feel too bad even if you got low score in exams...???
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  • RANK, WRITTERN TOTAL, FINAL TOTAL OF 5 AMONG TOP 26 WHO APPEARED IN BOTH 2011 AND 2012

    image

    Huge improvement in rank with not more than 10% deviation in marks
    makes me wonder has the competition gone down in mains due to introduction of CSAT at prelims...
    COMPARE.png
    1072 x 348 - 31K
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  • @Caartey You make good sense.

    This is the chief reason I am taking Pol Sci but am making all of my notes myself and not relying on any coaching class or their notes. It is taking twice as long but will be beneficial in the long run.
    UPSC is looking for originality in answers and quite a lot of people with the popular optionals have shown grave laxity by keeping the coaching class material as their primary source of reference, and when a 1000 people are reading from the same exact set of notes it is natural that answers and phrases and examples will be repeated in the mains.
    I don't think that any of these humanities optionals have the level of complexity which requires coaching to be necessary.
  • Caartey said:

    RANK, WRITTERN TOTAL, FINAL TOTAL OF 5 AMONG TOP 26 WHO APPEARED IN BOTH 2011 AND 2012

    Huge improvement in rank with not more than 10% deviation in marks
    makes me wonder has the competition gone down in mains due to introduction of CSAT at prelims...


    Why did 2011's Rank 118 give the exam again? Don't you get the service of your choice at that rank?
  • Why did 2011's Rank 118 give the exam again? Don't you get the service of your choice at that rank?


    No, even 102 ranker (2011) got his second choice...
    stick to the fight when you are hardest hit, it's when things seem worst you mustn't quit
    Thanked by 1Stardust
  • Caartey said:

    RANK, WRITTERN TOTAL, FINAL TOTAL OF 5 AMONG TOP 26 WHO APPEARED IN BOTH 2011 AND 2012

    image

    Huge improvement in rank with not more than 10% deviation in marks
    makes me wonder has the competition gone down in mains due to introduction of CSAT at prelims...



    Stop over-analyzing, the things you showed doesn't imply what you say. Similarly, you established a relation between smoking and 'shaking hand'. I must warn you , you are way out of line, get your head examined.
    Anonymous
  • @Caartey :)>- Yup I wholly understood , but just to clarify my stand why I took Literature.

    Definitely me too had long discussion with toppers [2010,'11,'12,'13] for their choice of optionals . It was mixed reactions . So I couldnt generalize for why they opted , even Medical Student who has good academic record choose not to opt Medicine [instead had Geography :P ]

    But one thing for sure , whatever your do If you win everything will be considered as strategy , but if you loose even NCERT reading could be considered as a charade :))
    2015-->6th attempt || Going for the final kill .. !!
    Thanked by 2Caartey mjbil
  • Jacob said:


    Stop over-analyzing, the things you showed doesn't imply what you say. Similarly, you established a relation between smoking and 'shaking hand'. I must warn you , you are way out of line, get your head examined.



    Thanks for your concern man...
    Even I had my doubts in the past. i also got myself tested. even by specialists...
    Yes there are some unique, even some quirky aspects about my personality...
    But they assured me that I am not crazy...

    Also this picture is simply a sample from the huge data...
    If i am way out of line...
    Please explain logically why the cutoff drastically went down in 2012...???

    If you didn't know this, my signature is a anti-smoking message in the form of a "reductio ad absurdum"
    which i promote now as i was able to successfully quit my smoking habit a year ago...
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  • @Caartey : you have summed up the entire scenario pretty well.. kudos !
    [ CSE-2013 ]
  • @Stardust1901 : if rank 118 is a general category candidate, then he definitely would not have got the IAS (if that was his 1st choice).. considering there where 150 seats for the IAS in 2011, the general category should get over by around 70-75 (considering reserved category backlog)... i doubt he would've bin allotted IAS even if he was within 100 !
    [ CSE-2013 ]
    Thanked by 1Stardust
  • Caartey said:


    Thanks for your concern man...
    Even I had my doubts in the past. i also got myself tested. even by specialists...
    Yes there are some unique, even some quirky aspects about my personality...
    But they assured me that I am not crazy...



    *If it is approved by specialists, then "Congratulations!"

    Also this picture is simply a sample from the huge data...
    If i am way out of line...
    Please explain logically why the cutoff drastically went down in 2012...???

    *Maybe 100 reasons, most simple one is "because, papers were a bit tough.". Moreover, knowing the reason for low cut-off is no way useful in a competitive exam. As for 'reasoning'( its in the syllabus), 2011& 2012 -pre were both CSAT, how can u conclude that lower marks in 2012 means CSAT has reduced the quality of examinees. It was present in both years!!!!

    If you didn't know this, my signature is a anti-smoking message in the form of a "reductio ad absurdum"
    which i promote now as i was able to successfully quit my smoking habit a year ago...

    *Whatever is that, it looks infinitely stupid, no matter if you have a fancy name for it. You have quit smoking, very good. That doesn't give you a license to say illogical things about smoking and -if someone is stupid enough to take advice from your message- misguide people.
    Anonymous
  • Mr Caarty.

    I too find your views a little objectionable. I am a heavy smoker for a long time now and i know what it does to one. I may get my lungs choked, get throat cancer, become impotent or get unsteady hands but i ain't gonna quit it. Vices like smoking, drinking, gambling etc are one's personal choices and i won't like someone barking over it. I have 1000 problems beside smoking so if you wanna crib about smoking then you should also try to give solutions to other 999 problems . If you can't then just shut the f88k up. I will deal with all my 1000 problems on my own. I will do whatever i want to and shun anything whenever i feel like.

    As for the huge difference of marks in two consecutive years among those selected is attributed to many factors. One of them, which i find suitable is the approach of examiners in setting and evaluating the question papers. Nowadays analytic approach is being adopted by UPSC compared to predominately factual nature of questions in yesteryears. It all started to begin from 2010 so i can assume DP has some sort of hand in it. The question papers of 2012 be it GS or optionals are the most analytic in UPSC's entire history.

    Now the problem with analytic nature of questions is that there can't be one definite answer. All depends upon thje mindset of the examiner which may or may not match your own. Factual questions are easy and most of the times if you know the facts well you can get good marks. I can give many examples from the previous year Question papers in this regard but it would be very lengthy. Anyways you can see it for yourself and the the kind of mind you are certainly you will understand.

    The solution to this is according to my view should be introduction of MCQs in Mains too like in pre. At least MCQs have a definite answer and whatever little objectionable they be, like we saw in this years official answerkey, they present a very fair ground to anyone participating. I love the level of UPSC pre exam post 2011 (these coachingwallas test series be damned) and would love to see same kind in mains too + essay for assessing one's writing skills.

  • @Jacob : true that about the smokers' bit..
    [ CSE-2013 ]
  • Firstly i’d like to say I don't think people are outraged because they have a problem with Literature subjects but because of the distortions that exist in the system. I personally have absolutely no problem with anybody taking any optional but i would like to see a system which is fair and NOT DISTORTIONARY(not favouring Pub Ad or Pali or whatever)

    Now regarding the distortion itself. The fact is that there is a DISTORTION has been accepted by UPSC and that is one of the reasons they are changing the pattern. I’m sure you remember the provision which said that literature optional can be taken only by those students who had them as their graduation subjects(also the removal of Pali). Although that provision was removed later that was a clear acknowledgement on the part of UPSC that people taking literature optional are getting marks which are disproportionately high. So whether you accept it or not UPSC has accepted that there is a problem with the system.

    (P.S here: I need to make it clear that I am not talking on the merit of the provision. I also found it discriminatory. But that’s not the point here. The point is that UPSC believes that there is a distortion.)

    Of course people make their choice of optional subjects to score marks. I do not see anything ethically/morally wrong in that. Even people who take subjects of their interest take them to ultimately maximise their performance. Since you would have interest in the subject you will be able to study longer hours and enjoy the subject more which would lead to more productivity and most probably better answers and consequently MORE MARKS. The student’s job is to study and get high marks so that he/she can get into the service. If there is a distortion in UPSC’s system which favours Public Administration or Literature people are bound to take those subjects because if you don’t then someone else will. It’s UPSC’s job to set standards which are fair and not distortionary and to ENCOURAGE (not force) people to take subjects that they have interest in. But if UPSC has been unable to do that how can you blame students for taking those subjects. Let’s say hypothetically the portion for Maths optional is way above M Sc standards(which would also be a distortion)would you still take Maths as an optional? I would guess not. Otherwise it would be stupidity since you wouldn’t have time to prepare General Studies. You have a whole life to pursue your interest anyway.

    And what about a person who does not have any particular interest and did not enjoy his/her graduation subject either. That person doesn’t deserve to sit in the exam at all? Because he/she’s obviously not been reading any of the subjects prior to the examination phase. Please understand that if this person is willing to take any subject outside their domain and ready to compete with other students (who have done those subjects in their graduation or have pursued it as their interest) then the first person is also taking quite a huge risk and if he is able to compete against the others based on UPSC’s standards then kudos to that person.

    And lastly for you to give me(or anyone on the forum) certain choices( Either to ignore/ostracise you or accept your views) smacks of complete arrogance. I don’t think i have done any of the three. I just have a different view.
    Thanked by 3wan2bifs gdogra spirate
  • @Caartey That was in response to your posts earlier in the thread.Sorry i forgot to tag you in the resposnse.

    P.S : My optionals were History and Pol Science(now Pol Science)
  • Smokers , cease fire :-t . Its your personal choice to smoke or not to smoke .
    But as person who was heavy smoker [ quit , almost 2 years now] , I could assure , your frustration level will be staggering low , after quitting . \m/
    Personal request to @ashok_harish , dont be brave to say you will be OK with oral cancer.
    It could occur even to non-smokers too . If you witness they struggle with their disease you wont be dramatic enough to say so ;)
    2015-->6th attempt || Going for the final kill .. !!
    Thanked by 2Caartey mjbil
  • @ashok_harish
    The intended message of my signature is "Quit smoking, its good for you"
    if you don't like the words i used to express it that is completely your choice
    and choosing what my signature says is mine...

    @Dilip
    Except for the part about ethical aspects of choosing optional on sole basis of maximum performance,
    i agree with you. my posted focused more on the outrage this year you have extended it to previous year too thanks for that.
    When an aspirant with rare optional raised the discrepancy issue he was generally advised to change his optional, but when a popular optional like pub ad gets hit that to two year in a row now the cry for change has gotten really louder...
    Did the aspirants with pub ad till 2010 get outraged on behalf of the smaller group...???

    Also i apologize for sounding arrogant at the last part i only mentioned the frequent responses i got...
    from now on i ll include this as third choice and a none of these just to be on the safe side...
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  • spirate said:

    Shkk said:

    What do these communities mean ???



    I think 4 is General, 3 is OBC, 2 is SC and 1 is ST.


    4-General
    3-OBC
    2-ST
    1-SC

    You can see in the list, digit 1 comes more frequent compared to the digit 2.
    Mathematics CSE 2013
    Thanked by 1Shkk
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