Aajao Aaj Reservation ka Class Lagate hai.
I was silently just going through the thread to see if there was any information on prelims. The crass arguments against the reservation system forced me to login.
You know what's sad? Those who don't even understand what kind of discrimination SC/ST community members face, have given interviews in civil services exam this year. It's not just sad, but appalling, abhorring and abominable. You inhuman beings are rotten pudine ke jhaad with zero utility.
Before I make any arguments,
All those who think that Rich/Well Read/Govt Officers who belong to SC/ST community do not face discrimination. I HAVE A CHALLENGE FOR YOU.
STEPS TO FOLLOW FOR THE CHALLENGE:
1. GO TO YOUR PARENTS/ELDER RELATIVES IN YOUR HOUSE AND SAY GOOD EVENING.
2. ASK THEM IF THEY WILL ALLOW YOUR SIBLING/COUSIN TO MARRY AN IAS OFFICER/RICH PERSON BELONGING TO SC/ST COMMUNITY, BE IT ARRANGED OR LOVE MARRIAGE.
3. RECORD THE AUDIO/VIDEO OF THAT CONVERSATION and THEN COME POST IT HERE.
4. AND THEN, HAPPILY AND JOYFULLY POST ALL YOUR ARGUMENTS AGAINST RESERVATION.
The discrimination faced by SC/ST has least to do with poverty/economic inequality. It's the social inequality that has plagued them from thousands of years. If you don't at least understand this, please quit your upsc preparation. You'll do more harm than good as a civil servant.
For those who are unaware of what kind of discrimination SC/ST face:
1. Doesn't matter what the guy/girl does, doesn't matter how educated or rich he/she is. Doesn't matter how good of a human being they are, THEY WILL SIMPLY NOT BE CONSIDERED FOR MARRIAGE. You know what? Guys have been killed just because they belonged to SC/ST and they married so called upper caste girls. UNDERSTAND THE GRAVITY NOW? LIVES WERE TAKEN OFF FOR NO REASON. Kabhi news bhi pad liya karo dimag khol ke.
https://www.newsclick.in/dalit-man-MP-killed-marrying-upper-caste-woman-7-years-ago
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/two-arrested-for-killing-dalit-who-married-upper-caste-woman-2056054
https://theprint.in/opinion/inter-caste-marriage-isnt-the-problem-marrying-a-dalit-man-is/262491/
2. Houses are not rented out. Doesn't matter even if you eat vegetarian food. You will be simply shown the door.
3. When it comes to postings in government jobs or facilities in job location. Doesn't matter even if you are an IAS, you will face discrimination.
4. Even if you have the same set of skills, you will be discriminated against the applicants from so called upper castes.
http://www.isec.ac.in/WP%20361%20-%20Smritirekha%20Singhari%20and%20S%20Madheswaran%20-%20Final.pdf
This is just the tip of the ice-berg. The subtle yet ferocious psychological trauma that one faces is beyond any physical pain. One feels like, am i even human like everyone else? why am i being treated differently at every step. If only were you in their shoes, would you understand the nerve wrenching experience associated with the existence.
Now I'm not claiming every SC/ST person to be a saint, I agree that just like in any community, there are some bad humans in this too, but they are in minority. There are a majority of SC/ST humans who are peaceful, neutral, just minding their own lives and yet being made to feel like why are we even born. No one deserves such undignified existence. Everyone needs to be treated like humans and IT'S YOU, ME AND EVERYONE else who need to RECOGNISE THIS FACT and STAND UP FOR THEM and MAKE THEM FEEL LIKE THEY ARE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.
What's ironical is that so many of us tweeted for BlackLivesMatter, but how many of us know that caste-ism and racism are very similar and yet, no one bats an eye for this. There have been international sanctions on countries for practicing racism and in our country, this oppression happens just like it's everyday business.
https://theconversation.com/racial-and-caste-oppression-have-many-similarities-37710
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/jugglebandhi/the-indian-caste-system-is-based-on-racism/
I can share so much more on this, but I hope that some of you understand what the discrimination is about and what you can do to make our society better. The change, my dear friends, starts from educating your near and dear ones. Ghar badlo toh desh badlega.
I know some of you will be like media is reporting one side, toh bhaisaab let me tell you, i've seen all of this happening right infront of my eyes. Ab mai tumhara topper toh hu nahi jiski baat aap blindly maan jaoge. Isliye news articles daalne pade.
Bye for now.
Imbeciles and Nincompoops like the above are EXACTLY the classic example of why casteism still persists and therefore, reservation.
1. What cultural difference are you talking about? Do upper caste people eat different food or wear functionally differently clothes or worship different gods? WHAT CULTURE MAN? Is it your culture to discriminate between humans? You have no answer for this, hypocrisy knows only one thing, and that is to counter question a question and you will do that.
2. Read that GODDAMN article properly, the story is about a Hindu not getting rented house by another Hindu. Why the discrimination? Everyone is same. AND, cut the stupidity about alcohol and all those silly reasons, this only shows the prejudiced mindset. Why do you think that only certain people indulge into alcohol
3. For the retard gentleman who asks about my story. No sir, I am from the other side of the spectrum, I am from general category. I know it's hard for you to digest, but I don't care if you feel nauseated. A human stands for other human, get over this sick mentality of thinking that you support only your community even if your community is wrong.
I dream of annihilating caste system and therefore scrapping reservation system forever. I want no such illogical identity for any human. But, unreasonable people like you make my job tougher.
Please for god's sake stop this caste-ism and educate everyone around you to remove this lens of caste and treat everyone as a human.
Goodbye, keep arguing and indirectly keep contributing to making reservation a permanent thing. I hope some wisdom enters your neural pathways.
@iskool what cultural difference precisely you have with a sc/st family? please enlighten..its not cultural difference its acceptance of social hierarchy with respect to caste which we call in other words caste discrimination
you still didn't get it??? my god
consider I am pandit and want to marry a rajput girl........ both the families won't agree. now you answer your question...... you must get it or u r biased a lot.
If you want to marry any person, be an adult first and have independent decision making. If you are rejecting your love for a silly thing like caste, god bless your existence.
@Spectrum Ok challenge accepted..i don't think my Parents will not agree :) let's have a social experiment at forum..If Selected candidates from reserved communities propose to any guy/girls,I don't think anyone would reject it just because of caste or community..Every years so many intercastes marriages are happening successfully, significantly much more than the exceptional horrible incidents that u have mentioned..But media wale ko bhi apna dukan chalana hai..They will present it in a way that can be sold and consumed easily.. Reality is the victims of honour killing are not only reserved communities people but all indians irrespective of their castes..Even among Brahmins honour killing takes place due to difference of gotra(means within same caste),,within same general unreserved category( in between brahmins,rajput,kshatriya,thakur,etc though they all belong to same so called upper castes but such incidents of honour killing happen between them),,among different castes of OBCs,,even among different castes belonging to same reserved dalit community ,,dalit christian vs dalit hindu..Nd all..So point is just by quoting sm common social malpractice whose victims are every single member of this society(irrespective of their social identity n social status) u can't justify an immoral act of grabbing the seats of deserving reserved category ppl..It means if a rich sc/st/obc guy act morally then a well deserving poor sc/st/obc guy will be benefited..It's not about general vs reserved category but rich sc/st/obc vs poor sc/st/obc..It's not about legality it's about morality,, ethics..Honour killing kyu hota ,,nd caste rigidity kyu hai indian society me kabhi ghar aao baith ke baat krenge.. Sociology optional hai to thoda sa pta hai.. Black lives matter,dalit life matter,,infact every life matter..Why life should have preference based on colour or caste..No sane person is against reservation,,it's a necessity in an unequal fragmented society like indian society..But ye usko mil nhi rha jisko milna chahiye..Logo ko problem nhi hai ki kis undeserving ko mil rha benefits,, problem ye hai ki uski wajah se ussi community ke sabse deserving one ko wo nhi mil paa rha..Pure india me bas kucch gine chune mutthi par castes ke logo ne bechare illiterate garib, socially unaware , politically inactive sc/st/obc ka haq maar le rhe..Ye paap hai..Ghor paap hai..Unn garibo ka baddua lagegaa jo bhi un bechare ka haq maar rhe..
Challenge complete karke aana, we will then have a proper conversation.
@iskool what cultural difference precisely you have with a sc/st family? please enlighten..its not cultural difference its acceptance of social hierarchy with respect to caste which we call in other words caste discrimination
you still didn't get it??? my god
consider I am pandit and want to marry a rajput girl........ both the families won't agree. now you answer your question...... you must get it or u r biased a lot.If you want to marry any person, be an adult first and have independent decision making. If you are rejecting your love for a silly thing like caste, god bless your existence.
samjho yaar its not about me. its about my father who considers himself out the society in which he resides. that sharmaji/ pandeyji or haq saab matters him alot.
this is middle class. still not getting then you must be an alien on earth.
its not about being right/wrong. its about he is rudimental, dont want to change........
bhai tum galat angle se link kar rahe ho...........
Bas, aur kya. You proved my point.
Aapke pitaji is a part of the society and with utmost respect, it's because of him and similar others, the caste system exists and therefore, reservation exists.
This is why I asked everyone to speak to their parents/elders first. After that conversation, you will know why reservation exists.
There is nothing more to debate on this. Bye bye.
u seem to be jahil bhai..... Reservation is there not because of my pitaji and your thoughts.
its there because i studied in a pvt school and u studied in a govt school. i came in this world with golden spoon and u might have not seen spoon in ur life.
the logic u r having m sure you will be IAS one day!
Reservation is there and needs to be there not because of the jahil ideas you have but because of the inequality present in the society. Since it's easy to give it on caste basis it is being done and now it has political angle.
Point is the deserving ppl of SC/ST/OBC are not getting the reservation....... and SC/ST/OBC ppl are actually suffering out of it...... nahi samajh aaya to AARAKSHAN dekh lo........ by prakash jha. i know a ST guy taken more than 10 attempts to this very exam. you can meet him in ORN. he is filthy rich.
EWS is welcomed on that front only because it has economic criteria out of NON-SC/ST/OBC. Out of rest 50% that are not getting reservation and are poor are now eligible under EWS.
Can you imagine how it is actually uplifting the ppl. and the point is he wont be able to claim it after selected nor his upcoming generations.
dimag lagao aur samjho........... SC/ST/OBE ppl are being fooled in the name of reservations. only affluent ppl are getting benifitted.
NAMASTE!!
p.s. i am a general catogory/non-ews student and left with only 72 seats for IAS.
Good Morning Certified Gawaar 😁
Bas kar bhai. What kind of covering does your little brain have that you aren't able to understand the simple difference between social and economic discrimination? Please let us know so that we can recommend the same covering to be used in masks to prevent the spread of coronavirus.😂
On a serious note, please go read some books or for that matter just ncert about social discrimination. You will need it to pass this exam. If not, someone else in the future will take a jibe at your attempts due to the chutzpah you're displaying towards your preparation because of the inherent biases that you hold.
Phir se padlo,
Discrimination #101:
1. Social discrimination is not equal to economic discrimination
2. Being Rich/Educated will not spare one from social discrimination
Go study now and don't be a pseudo-aspirant making silly arguments about social issues which are well understood.
Oh Bhai please bas karo yeh reservation debate for the love of God, for the love of civil services and obviously for the love of forum. Stop this madness. It doesn't serve any purpose. It is a pointless exercise. I humbly request 🙏
Instead of telling someone to stop debating on a social issue, why don't you all bring some sense to the@iskool person?
To be honest, this is not even a debate. This is just correcting facts for a person who is utterly insensitive to human suffering. If you cannot even have the tolerance or patience to educate a person with wrong notion on a social issue, civil servant ban kar bhi kya hi fayda hai.
When something bad happens in-front of you, isn't it your responsibility to correct that person or will you pick and choose issues as per your comfort?
Doesn't serve any purpose? You must be joking. Oh no wait, Now i get it. It doesn't serve any purpose to your well placed social standing. Gotcha.
Pointless exercise tumhare liye hoga, you must be blind to human suffering.
@Spectrum I get that bro. I was not targeting you in particular. You took it to a different tangent. All i am saying is if one values his time, which I think one should, then one should indulge in discussions that have no end. Now you will say - who are you to tell what to do and what not? Perfectly fine reasonable objection. But what I have to say is I didn't join this forum to become a social justice warrior. So maybe moral outrage at wrong place will waste my time. It is easy to sit behind a screen and type all what you feel like and be a key board warrior but can it change anything? Can you change somebody's mind ? Somebody's mental conditioning through your speech and perspective? World is full of injustice. Can you change all of that? We can do our bit by working at a position that can to some extent help those who are in need and that is why we are here for. And we can do that by joining services and through our actions and not talks. As for reservation, I will chose not to comment not because I am afraid, but because it will prompt you to reply and or maybe somebody else will reply something and then i will have to come here again and again and type all day and which I feel is not a very wise use of time and also on a issue in which I can do absolutely nothing to change that. This is what I had to say.Now I will also request you to not reply to comment because it will waste your time and mine too. I don't wanna keep fighting with anybody. Maybe you won't agree with me. That's perfectly fine. Let's just agree to disagree. Peace. Have a good Day!
Aaaah!! You guys are so predictable. I knew that I would be called a SJW/KW when you have no sane argument to make.
1) SJW's are those who started this topic in the first place, I came to put an end to the non-sense that was going on here, read my comments, i asked everyone to just cut the crap and think good.
2) Bhai, tumhara time-waste ho raha na? Why are you refreshing this page? Why does this even concern you? Ignore it. But, I know you won't ignore it. I'll tell you why.
3) The reason you are refreshing the page is because, you're vella and not studying.
4) The reason you are asking the topic to be closed is becauseyou feel uncomfortable and suffer from cognitive dissonance when topic of reservation comes infront of you.
The hypocrisy within you screams with the guilt but the helplessness of your ego forms a inconclusive defence (This is a pure psychological explanation - Don't take it otherwise). It was a classic Freudian slip, deeply and perversely embedded inside your subconscious territory that you blurted out to save yourself from the reality that is against your perceptive biases and desires.
The above will not make sense to you, but trust me, you would hear the same if you had visited a psychologist.
Either school the @iskool person about what is right and wrong, or close this website and peacefully study. Don't ask for discussions to be closed when you start feeling discomfort in your myelin sheath.
Haan bhai sahi bola.......... ussi me fayda hai seat bhi kam ho gayi hai.......... aur social change to aayega nahi tujhe samjha ke............ :D
1) Learn to type properly, you'll get a job somewhere.
2) Your ego is hurt, so your brain has naturally stopped functioning normally. Come back when you're CNS is back to normal and when you make valid arguments. Take some rest and wisdom until then.
Better to be objective and rational rather than blind and emotional.
Noone loves uncertainty. That's why some people choose blind 'No', others blind 'Yes'.
Leave corona numbers and infection chances, moral and health hazard stuff away for a while, let's put a Question:
Those commenting that exam is certain, please enlighten how an aspirant staying in a remote village having to reach his Prelims Centre (in a big city some 100s km away) whose bus/train option is almost nil, staying and fooding and last mile connectivity option at the City so uncertain can be sure she can reach the center on time and write her exam???
It's not feasible to conduct the exam, but the government will. That is the story. It's an injustice that will be meted out on us.
@sulawesi Yeah I too saw one. Saying they have contributed 10k Rs.I have serious doubts about the truthfulness of these things. I mean till yesterday these guys were saying we will wait for judgement on 17th and then decide, spoke to some other lawyers as well and today morning directly asking for contribution!
Don't see everything with skepticism. They've collected 49k out of 1 Lakh and the petition is happening. The money is going directly to the advocate, things cannot be more transparent than this.
Also, someone on their group clarified that they're just going for postponement and not other thing like merging/cancellation etc.
The least we can do is provide them some support because they're fighting for our health with their money.
I genuinely don't understand how people are considering the possibility that exams will be postponed and some even calling for cancellation or merger.
UP has conducted two major exams in this month in which lakhs of candidates appeared. Other states are also going ahead.
Most of the activities of pre covid times have resumed with some on paper instructions.
Epidemiological models which projected high death and infections by July have failed. Test/M population is increasing. Death/M population is low compared to world average. Even if we are testing low, cfr is also low. This shows that strain is weak(?) in India. (Apologies if it sounds insensitive.)
Also SC would(should) not encroach upon executive to the extent which is being speculated. Exam taking bodies have the main say.
Every life is crucial but I don't think that decisions will be taken keeping this in mind. Utilitarianism 101.
Covid anxieties in India have already plateaued much before the curve. It is in plain sight just outside our windows.
I hope genuine concerns of students are addressed.
Later on the other side of the storm.
All the Best.
Quite insensitive.
Utilitarianism also requires you to donate your kidney to a perfect stranger. Or to save a random baby instead of your ailing grandmother from a burning building.
It's quite a slippery slope maximising the greatest good for the greatest number at all costs, don't you think? :)
Purrfecto
Utilitarianism speaks about Eudaimonia. And this is exactly why conducting exams in the middle of a pandemic is not even 0.01% eudaimonistic and therefore is against utilitarianism.
If getting a job/degree/admission by risking your health (possibility of a chronic ailment) is your Eudaimonia, then god bless you. I can't say more.
@Patootie I am not the exam conducting body and it has nothing to do with my personal morals. I was making a general remark on how most decisions are taken. In that light i don't understand how people think exam will be cancelled/merged.Why the urge to implicate me?
Decisions are political. End of the story.
@Katy_SinghI don't understand SC, it was the students themselves who filed the petition so claiming that it will jeopardize student's future is an unnecessarily paternalistic attitude. The least they could have done is hear out the arguments.
advocate alakh's arguments were really absurd.. compare it with singhvis arguement in UGC case.
true, it was not upto the mark, but it is equally pathetic that court dismissed case in less than 7minutes. looks like even the court is answering GS-10 marker question
7 mins is a long time, cases are disposed in 30 seconds
I accept the decision of the honorable court wholeheartedly, but when students get infected/affected/die due to this decision, i will be back to claim the article 21 guaranteed by the constitution. Till then,"hum hai rahi fundamental rights ke, phir milenge chalte chalte".
Humans inherently are selfish. Those are in good preparation or those disparate for success want exam to go ahead. Those who are not prepared or having extra source of income want exam be postponed. There is nothing called Carona or health in back of their mind. Hope time will guide everyone.
Humans are inherently not selfish, its not in our genes. Selfishness is a societal construct devised primarily for survivability but often used for greed
@Spectrum Sociology optional?
Nahi sir, optional aur upsc ke bahar bhi duniya hai, jo dekhna chahte hai unhe dikh jaata hai.
