For people having Maths Optional, I have analyzed both the papers of CSE 2024 question by question here: https://forumias.com/post/detail/Mathematics-Optional-2024-Paper-Analysis-1727851791
You can comment your views down below there.
Few inputs from my end.
1. Whatever you are doing, do it well. Developing poor study ethics / habits in foundational year is what gets most people stuck in exam loop, or exhaust attempts. In short, try to excel academically. You need not be topping, but be robust with what you are doing. This is not going to be easy.
2. Focus on finishing your MGP tests. About 30% questions in the commission may have questions on which you may not be aware of all dimensions or even the major dimensions. Hitting them now, and geting demotivated is not going to help. Answer the PYQs which you can answer and note down the ones you cannnot, if at all.
3. Do not do any Mains prep in Feb, if you have not cleared Prelims before. Give prelims 5 months time. You will have people saying, I gave 5 months and cleared prelims, but my mains was not prepared, and its my 3rd attempt. What lesson you pick up from this line is important. The person is finding mains tough not because he gave 5 months to prelims, but because he didn't give mains the time it needed in the 3 years. This was easy to understand in the hindsight but sometimes difficult to fathome when seen from the windscreen.
Thankyou for the response, consider this as an accountability/seeking reform measure (post 12 days of progress)
Background - Final year student at IIT Delhi (B.Tech in Biotechnology), 8 months into the prep done with : -Polity, Economy, Geography (World Map, Indian, Physical, Human), (Morden, World, PI) History.
Optional - Philosophy (about 60% done), test series starts from 13th Oct.
Enviorment 33% done - mostly pre centric mapping (national parks TR,BR etc.) (10/30)
Mains centric topics - governance (3/12), DM(3/7), Society and SJ (2/19), IR (2/21)
Topics Remaining
A&C, Ancient and Medivieal Hist, IS, and Ethics.
Done includes watching lectures, making notes for revision (and pre centric mapping in geo), weekly pre tests and daily Prelims - PYQs/Practise MCQs, and a few answers written (each)
- Using MGP as Revision and for reading the books (more on that in the problems section)
1) Goals and Tracking -I try for
Bi weekly tests - on for Prelims (usually weds evening) and one for mains (sunday)
Prelims mock - only to identify the weak areas and write it on the notebook cover for better revision later.about 2 lectures daily - one optional (philosophy) and one GS (about 5hrs a day - mostly watch the lectures in 2x/1.5x, but making notes, and sometimes thinking within the lectures consumes about the same time as of the duration)
Newspaper - a signature for consistency - have been following daily since June (after 4 months into the prep) and started with forum CA quiz recently (2-3 weeks)
Answer writing - did a DAW program with Sunya for GS2 in July, and started with MGP in August.reading before sleep is for self - helps me sleep better. Spill over of targets is allowed (other than read before sleep)
i) a good/decent week -
ii) a below average week due to college work (733/732 are course codes)
2) Ended up analysing the questions because came across some very oddly specific questions - (Cite four examples of NGOs, Briefly discuss any three such technologies, etc.) To better accommodate value addition from news papers such as : -
The antimony example. (Have divided the keywords from the syllabus to collect unique points, form any source i get outside of course material.)
3) In the best case scenario - syllabus (watching lectures) gets over by jan 26 and attempting a full length mains test (most prolly the 2024 mains) in a time and place bound manner GS on 1st weekend (31 jan, 1 and 2 of Feb) and optional and compulsory language on (8th and 9th of Feb) and then shift to pre centric mindset (revise all the weak topics written on the notebook covers), start revising current affairs from the magzines, and daily pre tests, etc. (i am not sure what all is included but will try to do all that i can)
Problems ArisingPrep Related :-
1) Books - Haven't read any books from cover to cover (hoping to read a few topics (if not all) with MGP and pre centric books such as Laxmikant and Spectrum for revision before pre (Having trust on my teachers that they have taught me all the important stuff and the books are for revision and reference)
2) Mains PYQs - haven't exclusively alloted time to solve Mains PYQs rn (in the pre to mains period the plan is to only do PYQs, Tests, Value addition and Revision.)
3) Syllabus v/s Frequency of tests - Almost every week have to make a choice between completing the syllabus (lectures) or revise notes/ read a new topic to give MGP tests - mostly end up watching the lectures (because the are easy), and convince myself to give tests the next day with full energy.
Have attempted 3 HLTs till now (September was a college exam and assignments month thereby the tests have piled up)
HLT1 - 45.5/125 (rank 250/1500 ig) - couldn't give it in one go (did 5+3+3) had to look up notes for specific article numbers etc.
HLT2 - 42.5/125 (rank 600/1500 ig) - gave it in one go too 2hrs and 20 mins to complete.
HLT4 - yet to submit. (Also coudnt complete in one go had some new topics that i had to read up)
Prelims objective tests don't give me much sweat - can consistently score about 50-60% in revision tests and 70-80% in freshly read topics.
4) Current Affair magsines - not reading any now (relying solely on newspapers) plan to read them in pre prep period.
Strategic issues
1) Unplanned college interventions - Usually the reason for spillover of goals (MGP tests and pilling up of lectures which makes me watch lectures on sunday the dedicated day for Tests) (and 2nd)
2) Sleep routine - no consistent sleep routine - usually try to follow a biphasic (4am - 8am and 2pm-6pm) sleep routine (works good for the productivity) but somedays due to extra work the cycle keeps changing and it becomes tough to be accountable on what goals are achieved for which day.
any feedback/suggestions (any red or green flags) that you can spot or anything that i shall incorporate to omit out the unnecessary or prioritise doing (mostly between completing the syllabus v/s the frequency of tests)any advice from the experienced peeps (not limited to) @Neyawn @tedmosby @GaneshGaitonde @Rashmirathi would be really helpful. Thanks in advance.
Arre IIT Delhi! We would have crossed paths ig. I was there in IITD library during the one week break between GS and Maths Opt during Mains 2024.
Anyways, what you have done is extremely good. Please feel free to personally message me, we can have a small gmeet session on this because I cannot type out everything here.
@happySisyphus It was great interacting with you on gmeet. 1st attempt hai toh kuch na kuch humesha missing hi rahega, you cannot avoid that. So just focus on achieving whatever targets you have decided upon and be consistent.
@Neyawn I just saw your session and I know I am a bit exhausted and burnt out but I will get back to studying within this month itself after taking a small break. The thing about Maths Optional resonated with me and I would still say that Maths was a good optional till 2020. After that, RoI has been decreasing. So even if you get say 300+ in Maths then also you can't get a good rank without having good marks in GS + Essay (say 500+ with the current trend). And if you are not getting a rank then there's no point (Sirf interview tak jaana is not enough).
After interaction with @GaneshGaitonde bhai, I could actually gauge how HIGH the competition is. People with Humanities optional are armed with keywords and have a better "understanding" of concepts.Earlier, writing generic answers in GS would have been sufficient but the competition has increased a lot. To compete with them, we need to answer logically and analytically along with getting the quality-quantity trade off correct. This requires A LOT of answer writing practice now (Identifying the demand and writing a good answer under 7 to 11 mins with adequate keywords). In this context, balancing a science optional with GS is extremely difficult because now you have to compete with these people who have such fluent understanding of current events.
Anyways, gyaani baba days would be over soon and the hustle would begin again so ending this comment with a quote from Bhagvad Gita (Chapter 3, Verse 19):
tasmād asaktaḥ satataṁ kāryaṁ karma samāchara
asakto hyācharan karma param āpnoti pūruṣhaḥ
"Therefore, giving up attachment, perform actions as a matter of duty because by working without being attached to the fruits, one attains the Supreme"
I badly want you to succeed. At the same time I am concerned that if the optional is not working in your favour more than twice, do have a rethink.
I may have forced some people to change their optional, and sometimes rightly so because it has ended their vicious cycle..
If the optional isnt working for 2 or more times, it wont work in the 5th time or so. And this is the only time to think about it.
@Neyawn I was exploring the possibility of changing my optional after my 2023 attempt but I had to make some amends because I knew that there were certain blunders I had been committing in my optional prep. I remember you had written a post about it. This time I did everything possible and I am completely satisfied with my personal efforts for Maths but again 2024 has shook me and I had to rethink on the aspect of optional.
I always had this aim of breaching the 300+ barrier in 2024 which "I" don't think would be possible for me if the present marking pattern persists. What plays out in reality is a different thing. "Few" silly mistakes in the real exam can pull your score down to below 200 (That's how extreme results are in Maths. I personally know a lot of brilliant people whose score have ranged from 140s to 300s).
Why did I choose Maths? When I started prep in Dec 2017, I was in the 3rd semester of BTech. I had a CGPA of 9.97 (till my 4th sem) and I had a near perfect score in Maths-based courses. Also to back it, I had several gold medals in Maths Olympiad. I used to think that UPSC Maths is something which is based "just" on knowledge (A perception I didn't shake off till after seeing my 2023 Marksheet). I had tremendous knowledge about the physical significance of the concepts (Thanks to 3Blue1Brown and other such YouTube channels) but Maths in UPSC is all about following SOP as the questions had been standard till 2023. In addition to this, the 2017 results were out in 2018 and Anubhav Singh had secured AIR of 8 with 375/500 in Maths. Next year, even Kanishak Kataria scored 361 in Maths. I was naïve back then and I didn't know the dark side of this optional. Some of the brightest minds in India have wasted attempts after attempts because of this optional.
Reason for continuing with it: If I changed my optional without doing PYQs and mocks properly, I would have committed the same blunders in my other optional as well. So to make amends, I solved PYQs from 1992 onwards (for CSE) and 2000 onwards (for IFoS) since Dec 2023. I identified important concepts and practiced the standard questions in this attempt. I gave my mocks and I scored decently under strict conditions.
How 2024 changed my perspective: Mostly non-standard questions were asked in 2024. A person who has done "only" Maths this attempt would have scored more. Balancing it with GS was extremely difficult. Now the sunk cost fallacy has sinked in and I am finding it tough to switch.
In this limited time since my Mains, I analysed my Maths attempt and yes, I have been in self-doubt because of variables like scaling, relative performance and so on. I would not like to comment on these variables because I am not competent enough to do that. For now, I have shortlisted Philosophy and Anthropology as "possible" substitute to Maths for now but I do not know how to go about humanities optional from scratch.
For that purpose, I would need suggestion from people who have written multiple Mains- @GaneshGaitonde @Rashmirathi @Steph_Curry and others in this regard.
@DM Thanks a lot! I will surely take this into account.
@Averageaspirant 300+ is not the only thing. I had to spend nearly 70-90% of my time on Maths in my post-Pre phase. Also what is value addition for me in GS is just a normal concept for a person with Humanities optional. Ex: For Ethics, a person who has Philosophy can reuse their content to make an analytical comment in Ethics. A person with PSIR can reuse their content in GS2. This is non-existent for science optional people.
Given the current marking trend- if you score 300 in Maths, you still have to get 500+ to be in the game. And if not that then only a superb Interview score would ensure that you get a top 100 rank. For getting 500+, you need A LOT of effort in the form of answer writing and possibly, value addition. To keep silly mistakes in control, you need to attempt a lot of mocks for Maths too. Now it is not only about attempting, it is also about analysing and recognising your pain points. Based on that, you have to form a strategy. In Maths, the stakes per question are very high. If you make a small + and - error, the whole solution goes wrong. Plus if you know a question, you know it else you don't. You cannot just write a "generic" answer to it. Plus if you look at the questions they asked this time, people are filing representations over them. All of this has forced me to ask myself: Can I depend on this optional?
In addition to this, you lose touch during the Pre preparation phase and to gain back the same rigour post-Pre is difficult. Now given the reduced time between Pre and Mains, managing Maths with GS is going to be something I have to think about. A critical analysis is something I have to do in the coming few days. I definitely love Mathematics but love is not enough in this exam. That's why I asked others for help. I have to look at both the sides (Leaving vs staying) and take a well-informed decision motivated by my own concrete reasons.
what are your thoughts about Majid Hussain GS geography book not the optional one.
Do not make it a base for your preparation. Stick to PYQs and keep NCERTs as your prep base. Show general interest while studying topics (you can "refer" to Majid Hussain for topics in which "you" feel you need to know more) and you will be ready for UPSC (Pre & Mains) Geography.
@Rashmirathi Thanks for your reply. What makes you recommend ORN?
Just pavolian conditioning
You had me in splits!
And I am not supposed to laugh or speak due to a throat exertion. ( Part of occupational hazard exacerbated by the Delhi Pollution )
Why haven;t I seen you since Mains? How is IFoS prep going?
I thought I was the only one down due to Dilli ki Hawa (Just moved to Delhi) but it seems this is very common.
I was talking with one broker in Noida, I was coughing a lot. The broker said, "Bhaiya yaha lungs mai Kam jalan ho rahi hogi na?". I replied, "Haan". He said, "Bas Delhi aur Noida mai yehi farak hai ki Delhi mai lungs mai zyada jalan hoti hai aur Noida mai kam".
Now I am thinking to buy Plague Doctor masks. xD
Hi everyone, as you know the UPSC CSE 2024 results were declared yesterday and fortunately some of my friends made it to the list. I congratulated them and demanded party from them (because why not).
But I would like to share a story for the ones who are writing this attempt and those who couldn't get into the list and are writing this attempt. Here it goes - "The Heroes of Tunbridge".
The Date: 18th June 1983. The Venue: Nevill Ground, Tunbridge Wells, England.
It was supposed to be just another group stage match in the 1983 Cricket World Cup. But for India, it was going to be a virtual knockout match. The overcast skies and a green-tinged wicket promised trouble for the batters. Zimbabwe, still hungry from their earlier upset over Australia, pounced like wolves.
India won the toss and chose to bat.
But within minutes, the scorecard read like a horror story: Gavaskar (The Little Master) and Srikanth had departed for a duck and before the fans could even settle, five wickets were down before the 10th over. Panic sat in the Indian dressing room like a silent ghost. The crowd at Tunbridge Wells grew quiet. The score read17 for 5.
Cricket administratorS.K. Wankhede, who was attending the game, asked his taxi driver tokeep the meter running suggesting thathe was in a hurry to leave.
The Indian fans had started to leave the stadium as the captain Kapil Dev took crease.
No one expected India to recover from that score not even the Indian fans.
But what happened next? I will just post the scorecard here:
The captain had done the unexpected. By the end of the innings, Kapil Dev had scored 175 not out off 138 balls, including16 fours and 6 sixes. He broke the record for the highest individual score in ODI cricket surpassing the previous record of 171, held by Glenn Turner of New Zealand (only broken recently in 2023).
With Madan Lal, Syed Kirmani, and Roger Binny offering fragments of support, Kapil pulled India from the edge of humiliation to a defendable total of 266/8.
Finally, India won the match and eventually, they went on to become the World Cup winners.
A British journalist by the name of David E. Firth wrote an article that "he’d be happy to ‘eat his words’ if India progressed beyond league stage". The picture below is that of Firth eating his own words.
Today, many are disheartened—scoring low in mocks, falling short in preparation etc. Some have already declared themselves out of the race—before even attempting the exam. But that’s not a performance issue. It’s a mindset problem.
मन के हारे हार हैं, मन के जीते जीति।
कहै कबीर हरि पाइए, मन ही की परतीति॥
If you decide that you are not going to clear Prelims even before the actual exam then you are definitely not going to clear. It's all in your mind.
If scoring low in mocks is shaking your confidence, remind yourself of this:
It’s better to stumble in mocks now than to fall in the final exam.
Maybe today, people expect you to lose.
Maybe even you doubt yourself.
But here’s what’s in your control:
You try. You fight.
You fight until the very last question of the CSAT paper on 25th May 2025.
No matter what the scoreboard says now,
think like a captain walking in during a crisis—
And play your captain’s knock.
All the best for the upcoming UPSC CSE Prelims exam.
@tedmosby thankyou sir, Much needed
Welcome! I think sufficient romanticization of events has been done by me, let's get to the implementation part. Prelims has been my strong point (qualified '22, '23 and '24) so if at all any one wants to discuss Pre strategy and 23 & 24 papers, feel free to drop a DM on Forum or text me on tedmosby98 on TG.
P.S. I am not a mentor. I am a full-time working aspirant who studies on weekends (and 2 to 3 hrs during weekdays). Looking to help out CSE '25 Pre aspirants this week as I start prep for CSE '26. I am busy once May starts.
@tedmosby how are things post mains, the architect ?
Mera toh post-Mains 2024 hi chal raha hai, did not give this year's attempt.
Job ne jaan le rakhi hai xD
Ah I remember we met. How is work then ? You know sometimes I feel that you are working too hard on the job compared to other aspirants. If needed , take a sabbatical, go full throttle.
Stress at the workplace has reduced a bit.
Yes, I have been working too hard on this job.
Last Mains was an eye-opening experience, though I think I improved in GS (353 to 381 (1: 93; 2: 93; 3:80 ; 4:115) [still not enough]) but the shock of performing poorly in Essay and Optional was something which made me rethink fundamental aspects of my preparation (Given the fact that I had worked very hard for these two specifically, a terrible fall in Essay from 126 to 86, and my continuing low score in GS2, although I had scored 112 in my 1st attempt).
For prep, I took your advice regarding changing my optional and I have taken a break to work on those points properly (in addition to GS).
So yes the progress is slow. For now, I will just stick to your advice and I will be back to the exam cycle soon. :)
Ah I remember we met. How is work then ? You know sometimes I feel that you are working too hard on the job compared to other aspirants. If needed , take a sabbatical, go full throttle.
Stress at the workplace has reduced a bit.
Yes, I have been working too hard on this job.
Last Mains was an eye-opening experience, though I think I improved in GS (353 to 381 (1: 93; 2: 93; 3:80 ; 4:115) [still not enough]) but the shock of performing poorly in Essay and Optional was something which made me rethink fundamental aspects of my preparation (Given the fact that I had worked very hard for these two specifically, a terrible fall in Essay from 126 to 86, and my continuing low score in GS2, although I had scored 112 in my 1st attempt).
For prep, I took your advice regarding changing my optional and I have taken a break to work on those points properly (in addition to GS).
So yes the progress is slow. For now, I will just stick to your advice and I will be back to the exam cycle soon. :)
We need to sit and talk then. This 350 to 380 isn’t an improvement. You can’t have that slow progress.
I am not sure how much you will understand me. Look there are people who have scored 360-380 types for 5 mains, and then they have crossed that 420-430 barrier. I am talking about 7th , 8th attempt people- not from gen category - who felt they could never get that much - and then they did.check For 3 things
1. Are you updating your content for gs2 and 3 by taking some classes
2. are you reading new books / content ( not base level mass coaching that may aid in prelims )
3. Do you have a writing legibility problem
4. as a last resort are you integrating current affairs from newspaper.
Do this and you will shoot upwards 450+
Yes surely I will come to meet you again.
I have realised that -
1. Optional was not working for me as I couldn't balance it with GS. I was extremely good at maths all through out (getting olympiad medals, state trophy, perfect 10 in Maths-related subject in college) but in UPSC, I could never get the balance right. This made me change my optional and I took your advice on starting with Opt Foundation course (which I did not do for Maths because of my arrogance and sense of complacency).
2. The brutal truth is that getting 280+ in Opt and 420+ in GS with a 110+ Essay score is non-negotiable. If the score dips in any area, you would have to compensate it with a higher score in other areas. If not in Mains then the pressure on interview marks grows. So yes, the score of 381 is not an improvement in the real sense.
3. Honestly, 3 continuous Mains on self-prep mode has exhausted me a lot. I have taken some time off to recharge and give one last try. It's not that I am not doing anything, I am preparing my optional.
4. I had never utilized the Oct, Nov, Dec months and due to that, I always got stuck in that Pre-Mains cycle. I broke that cycle this time.
5. Due to personal reasons, I can't give CSE 2026 too.
On the checklist-
1. I have not joined any classes for GS2 and 3 yet. It's difficult to squeeze in time for it after office hours (giving more time to Opt for now). But yes, I will get enrolled for them. I do not want to overburden myself with three things and end up with nothing.
2. No. I had done a lot of reading in my UG days but after a certain point of time, I realised that the content I have to read and prepare 'must be' PYQ-based. So even if something is new, I am mostly sticking to coaching magazines & IE for dynamic content and revising my notes for the static content. For leisure, I do like watching documentaries and reading non-fiction books.
3. No, I do not have writing legibility problem. Well in real-life too, I have learnt calligraphy. :)
4. On integrating current affairs from newspaper, I have strictly kept it PYQ and mock-based for now.
I feel that my lack of mock practice is the culprit here. 'Knowing' and 'implementing' are two different things.
I remember you had asked me a question on inflation and I gave you an unstructured answer. That's how you gauged I lacked mock practice and I remember you asked me how many tests I wrote when I enrolled in MGP and I said a number which made you say-
Listen Ted, I am saying this again but UPSC is a conventional exam. Ghisai karni hoti hai and you have not done that.
I have done some course correction to that extent but I have to give more time which is why I am planning to take a sabbatical soon.
