@chandler_bingSeems simple on face maybe . Definitely not while attempting. I have scored close to 100 in GS3 since 2013.
In 2017 interview, Bhosale sir had a 5 minute discussion with me towards the end. I told him frankly that lack of transperency in exam process promotes coaching industry. He said UPSC is making every possible effort to stem the rot of coaching industry.
His exact words : "Has the message not gone down loud and clear that coaching institutes will not be tolerated?"
I guess these types of paper are an effort in that direction.
@STLOL. Absolutely possible
I think competition is not the reason at least not the only reason. People worked as hard and had as many resources in 2013 as they do now. The available resources like vision are useless anyways in the paper. Just that the base(which is relative) has shifted. If an average answer got 5 marks in 2013, it gets 7 marks now. I don't know the reason behind it though. As long as it is all relative, doesn't matter.
@STDon't worry. All are tired. It is not very easy to get back straight to studies after 3 gruelling days of torturing your body and mind. I am trying to sit and focus but I end up either sleeping or whiling away time on the internet. Just revise whatever you can with ease.
I think it is not wise to over exhaust yourself to the point where you are unable to perform on 29th. These 5 days will have an impact, definitely but it will be limited.
If I can butt into the conversation. The following two factors are absolutely unrealted to the actual marks you score in any paper :
- How many questions you have attempted in any paper (provided you haven't left out a large chunk of paper, say 40% of it.)
- Whether in your SUBJECTIVE opinion, you have attempted any question satisfactorily.
You will always be surprised. You score high in papers where you fucked up and vice versa especially in initial attempts where you are yet to get a hang of what UPSC wants and a plethora of online materials and guides is actively trying to brainwash you. And NO, your marks in Vision or vajiram/Sairam/Gangaram tests are not at all a good proxy for your real marks.
I agree. The whole point of UPSC exams seems to be to check how you perform under mentail drain and exhaustion. It makes sense considering that after selection, 90% of the time you are taking decisions under uncomfortable and suboptimal conditions. 1 day breaks simulate these conditions perfectly. In 5 day gaps, we all get too relaxed.
@STIt used to be four years ago on the trijuction near Patel Nagar metro. It was generally spiked though.
@STAbsolutely terrible idea. Whatever you study now has very little chances of adding anything to your score. Your sleep, however has a substantial potential to change your score.
Anthro papers were not easy at all. Neither 1 nor 2. Paper 2, I think was the most unconventional so far. DIfficult to find valid material and case studies for most questions. Not at all along any previous year's lines. Generic questions mean that paper is difficult to score in. But, like all other years, I think the scores will be good. My personal view. The optional still is more rewarding than PubAd.
@zombielandI liked it. Definitely not as conventional as the pre 2016 era. Good mix of diffulty level of questions. People definitely need to move outside the scope of traditional materials like Braintree. Such papers do a good job of separeting the serious and non serious aspirants. Personally, It was a very satisfying experience to attempt it. The only paper where I am satisfied with my perfomance in my 6 years of tryst with CSE Mains.
@RaillifeI took it because it is more objective than traditional humanities subjects.
@BGPNope.
@chandler_bingPaper 1 moderately difficult bhai. It had mixed questions. I am just evaluating myself with reference to my previous attempts. Maybe the competition has increased and what was good in 2016 is only average now.
I have seen only the PubAd question paper. My very frank opinion is that it used to be much more ambiguous and vague in 2013,14 and 15, the three years I appeared with PubAd. Of course the vagueness never stopped anyone of us from scoring decent enough marks to enter into some service. We all lamented after the exams that we have written unrealted bullshit and finally when the results came, all were at par with other humanities optionals(scaling, I guess). I agree that PubAd still is more challenging than anthro, even this year. But you could be right with respect to other optionals. And I am glad that UPSC has not spared any optional this year if it is true.
Bhai, this exam has a great levelling effect. I am humbled by your words but all of us are equally clueless. Spreading gyaan here is just a safety vavle.
@chandler_bingAnyways, whatever I did well in Paper I, I more than made up for it in paper 2. Paper 2 was not easy at all or maybe I was under prepared. I just read some case studies and both hasnain books with Bhasme. Anyways, I started preapration in college in 2011. Now, more than 8 years later nd trying my hand at 4 different optionals, I am free at last. Done and dusted with my last attempt. Time to move on with my life. Awaiting my first promotion in January, marriage and all.
@BodhgayaVery counter intuitively, 2-2 line answers, in the right circumastances, will give you more marks than lengthy ones.
I agree. I am afarid of generalistic questions more than vague and tough questions because scoring becomes a real issue there. In all humanities optionals, Paper 2 is generally low scoring.
@RaillifeNo, but good guess.
@BodhgayaThanks a lot brother. My wishes with you too. I guess that's what UPSC's aim was. To render knowledge meaningless.
@CaesarIt was UPSC's reply given to SC in some case, I think. It has been years since I read it last. The top 5% copies and lowest 5% copies are rechecked by the head examiner from each stack to make sure there is no unnecessary extreme marking. A normalization formula was also given.
I frankly don't understand this obsession with Intro,body,conclusion. It is nothing more than a mental block in your answers. Where did this gyan come from? I am sure some genius coaching instructor or some reverant "previous year topper".
But your answers should be organic. Moulded on the spot as per the needs of the question. If you have to deliberately structure the answer in that format rather than the format coming to your thoughts and answer effortlessly, you are doing something wrong! And that confused mental process will result in an unstructured and unappealing answer.
Just my thoughts.
It so generally happens in GS-2 that people who over analyze end up scoring miserable marks(including yours truly in 2014) and noobs who write simple, extremely straight forward answers, win the game. Because when you overanalyze, you more often than not, steer your answer in the wrong direction which costs heavily.
Even someone who has written obvious lines without case laws and relevant articles will score well : ".......Federal supremacy means Central law will prevail, however while reviewing legislation, courts try to harmoniously reconcile state and central legislations without giving anyone supremacy over other."
That's it. Nothing else needed for above average marks. The trouble begins when you feel the need to decorate your answer with case laws, irrelavant examples, quote or flowery language.
On a personal note, after the 2014 debacle in GS-2 (which cost me 5 years of my life), I stopped studying for GS-2 polity section alltogether and have scored consistently well ever since.
This is my theory though. Let me know what you think.
@Kira0705Much as I hate to admit it, this proof is conclusive. The lines are directly lifted from the book. It happens all the time in PubAd as PubAd aspirants will agree. I myself divide along social service sectors like health and education but that seems wrong. The only ray of hope is that in optionals, while copying directly from books, the lines are enclosed in quotes. This has not been done in this case.
I am of the opinion that in such questions, wrong interpretation brings nil marks. I hope for my own sake that I am wrong though. I agree that UPSC allowed two interpretaions in the gender endangerment essay but it might have been a one-time card rather than the norm.
Representations in the regard can help. Progressive measure by UPSC. We should actively utilize the link. SOmeone can open a separete thread to discuss against which questions and on what grounds representations can be submitted.
@STAbsolutely true. The kind of resources that are invested all over the country, mainly human, in chasing this mirage not to mention the coaching industry this frenzy supports should be a cause of concern to policy makers.
There was an effort, or at least the talk of it, to tap into the wasted potential by allowing the private sector to recruit candidates appearing for interview but I don't know what has come of it or whether it was implemented.
I am not alone in reiterating that from the other side, it does not seem worth it. Not getting selected has been a blesing in disguise and selection has been a curse in disguise for more than a few.
@STEach and every word seems relatable ! My wishes with you bro, always.
On an unrelated note, do you peeps know of any exit options for civil servants who have 4-5 years working experience ? Is joining the coaching industry a viable career option if one likes that sort of work? I am sure some of you must have had that experience.
I would be grateful if anyone replies with relevant inputs.
@ShubzIMF is certainly extremely lucrative. There is a cut throat competition for deputation to IMF among civil servants but it does need more experience and a wider network. Anyways, thanks.
@MinimumwageThanks a lot. I like to interact with students. It is a stimulating experience. Civil services are more restrictive. Policy paralysis is so ubiquitous now a days that half of the planning goes into how one can avoid responsibility and push the burden on someone else's head.
Any idea how one can approach the institutes? Is it better to meet directly and negotiate ?
@STAsking for myself bhai. IRS to be extremely specific.
@pravinshinde3592958If out of 10k students, 8k have written in the pro/con format. The remaining 2k are anyways at an advantage. Puri Sir, one of the few good instructors in ORN, used to say that UPSC comes down heavily on anwers that are common. Different answers always fetch more marks even if content is equally good.
@MinimumwageThanks brother. This seems like a nice, gradual approach.
@ShubzAfter the first three attempts, the amount of time you will actually devote to studies on any given day will anyways reduce drastically. Job can be a good idea. In fact, I have a strong opinion that being in a job brings a fresh perspective to your answers.
The only factor is that you should leave your job(mentally and physically) at 5. Nothing that drains your energy and Mains needs at least 2 months of dedicated preparation. So be mindful of leaves. Job pressure a month before mains will drive you to a mental breakdown. Telling from personal experience.
Online platforms are public spaces for discourse. However honest one's opinions and expressions, there is bound to be dissent and suspicion among the participants. This becomes all the more relevant since your whole life will be under scrutiny and all your decisions questioned once you become a public servant. Your bonafide decisions will be turned against you and non existent motives attributed to them. Gradually, we all learn to accept them as inseparable parts of our life. We have to! There is no alternative. Why not start embracing opposition now itself as a prelude to the inevitable?
The correlation between your subjective appraisal of someone's performance, gauged through their recollection of events transpiring during the exam and the actual rewards they will reap is so weak as to render to whole process meaningless. I have seen time and again, brilliant and flawless answers disregarded and mediocrity rewarded.
That having been said, the most sincere and relevant evaluation of your answers can be done only by you. The gut feeling you have, immediately after you walk out the exam hall is generally reliable. This applies especially to senior aspirants. Of course there is no rule. The topper this year will faithfully follow in the steps of his or her predecessor," I was not expecting a top rank".
Now, help me move out of the glut and make myself presentable for the interview panel. Let's motivate each other.
@al_biruniThe answers are good and seem like something an aspirant might actually write in the exam hall rather than some complicated and highbrow content created after days of research. I personally disagree with the directions some answers have taken though.
Has anyone shared this ? Vivek Katju agrees with us. I think he has been seen in interview panels too.
I am of the extreme opinion that if we do not address the needs of the question, however eloquent the answer may otherwise be, we get 0 marks. The answers need to be very very specific. If your content isn't rich after addresing the question, you will definitely get some marks if not a whole lot. And after scaling(in case of optionals) who knows how much those few marks will be worth ?
@ajit_kdI actually agree with you on this. What I meant was, we need to answer only what is asked. Of course my appeal isn't to write excessively technical answers(not even in optionals). Yes, broad answers but strictly what is asked.
This article claims that Gitanjali got 15 marks in one of her attempts in essay. Don't know how true.
"In 2011, Brandon had made her second attempt at cracking the civils, having failed the first time after a score of 15 out of a total 200 marks in a 2010 mains essay paper which finally contributed to excluding her from the interview list by 12 marks."
Of the over 1000 people in 90th FC(few other than IAS and IFS actually attended the FC though), most were idealists bubbling with enrgy and ideas when they joined. 4 years down the line, I don't know a single soul(including yours truly) who hasn't seen a considerable transformation. We all have raected in different ways. Some have given in to the system. Some, who chose to resist, live in constant conflict taking down their health with them. Some have chosen to resign. Some have chosen to stay on the fringes in insignificant postings and never took a plunge in the actual chaos.
@ranyo_asoka@foxmulderThanks. SInce DAF- II is yet to be submitted, I doubt that interviews will start immediately after the results are declared. Maybe a month or so . FC for 2020 is scheduled for August 2020 only. UPSC wouldnt be in a hurry.
@pysh12950Lol@DijkstraThanks.
Lol. Sukriti got 83 in interview in my batch and ended up in Indian postal Service. Never gave the exam again.
UPSC 2014 TOPPER SUKRITI GUPTA MARKS
RANK : 706
SERVIC ALLOTTED : IPoS
MARKS :
ESSAY : 105
GS1 : 113
GS2 : 107
GS3 : 93
GS4 : 117
OPTIONAL 1 : 121
OPTIONAL 2 : 151
WRITTEN TOTAL : 807
INTERVIEW : 83
TOTAL : 890
OPTIONAL CODE : 28
CATEGORY : GENERAL
From what she has told me, this was just vengeance against someone standing up for themselves. She seems happy now though.
@zombielandWell, I can't go in detail on a public platform but let's just say it is best to be subservient in front of the panel. Years in bureucracy makes anyone's ego fragile. WHile disagreeing with panel, be extrmely humble. Of course doesn't apply to all panels but why take risk?
@K_9I see you are a man of culture as well!
I wish all of you get what you are hoping for. But that is statistically improbable. At some point in our lives, most of us have to accept our reality, deserved or otherwise and realize that life is so much more than careers and exams. We all eventually embrace it. Who wants to be miserable forever? Most of you will too.
Of course it might be too soon for some of you go down this line of thought lest it makes you complacent.@Losthas a valid point and I have no worthy counter for it.@John_TitorAlso seems to have got a hold of it. Pre selection, we pray for just a name in the list. Then we pray for a better service/better postings in our service.
On an unrealted note, I am awaiting my first promotion next month to the rank of DC. Just a change in designation and salary. But it is something to look forward to and more certain than results.
@zombielandDifficult to write in such an organized manner on spot but my answers match most of these broadly except a few like approach to religion. Of course if you try to cover all thinkers and examples you will most certainly run out of words and time. SO, if they have mentioned 3 examples in this key, it is okay to mention one. I am sure there are many who must have written on similar lines. The key seems good and also the only one available to me so far.
I should mention that I had a falling out with the author here on several occassions in her telegram group. We frequently had heated arguments and lots of disagreements on several issues but I will concede that this key is good and her knowledge of anthro is deep.
@zombielandI hope for my sake that this is true.
@CaesarNope. I know people who have made outright false calims in their DAF in those sections to make it more appealing. Many even got away with it .
I used to think the same till I was fighting for accomodation in my colony, which was granted based on seniority. I got the Type - IV flat and 2 of my own batchates had to rent accomodation outside at higher rates. Of course it does not make any substantial difference.
But when promoted to the rank of commissioner, this inter se seniority means a lot since those promotions are not batch wise. SOme might end up becoming junior to their batchmates. But 18 saal baad ka kaun soche?
@NadigVinayIN line with the government's ultimate aim to allot service based on UPSC plus FC marks. If that happens, it would be disastrous. Just another way to meddle in appointments.
This move in itself seems justified. A lot of us become complacent after clearing a single exam and what we see on the field is that young officers have little knowledge of the job and have to rely on the advice of their, often unscrupulous, subordinates.
@CaesarYes, you are right. More than how one presents themselves, FC marks will be awarded by the course team under the course director based on "extraneous factors". FC trainers and directors are highly prone to be pressurized or politicized. UPSC, despite all its drawbacks, has by and large maintained its independence. We at least know that the system is equally fair or unfair to all.
Even a 10% weightage to FC marks(as DoPT proposed in its OM) will give an unprecedented power to LBSNAA/MCR directors, serving officers in the government, to change service allocation. Highly unfair to deserving candidates.
In 2011, Brandon had made her second attempt at cracking the civils, having failed the first time after a score of 15 out of a total 200 marks in a 2010 mains essay paper which finally contributed to excluding her from the interview list by 12 marks.
The age of instant gratification has made us all anxious. Not a value judgement but just an observation. Now, we want instant decisions, instant satisfaction, instant results.
I remember reading K.J. Aphons's biography. Back in 1979, they used to have to wait to read their names in the final list published in newspapers.
I wonder how this "ïnsider-fake list-rumour" factory worked back then.
My take on television series is to watch either movies or series like South Park/Rick and morty where episodes aren't woven into a mega naarative that spans several seasons. This will ensure that you can relax when you need to but the series does not take up your mental space and interfere with your preparation.
@kochikaameBrutal truth : A sweet uncle who has worked in UPSC and now is trying to monetize that position. Also, validation from aspirants makes up for the lack thereof from other sources like his actual job.
@vvvikas0078212Only the notices or the final orders too ?
@CaesarThe way they will operationalize it is still unclear. Some distinction has to be drawn between enginering and generalist services.
@tmblnd1325194Extremely unlikely that this was the reason. To me, even the EWS issue doesn't seem to be the right reason for delay.
@MalcolmThis is one of the most misinformed lines of thinking in my opinion. I used to share these thoughts till sometime ago and to my utter shock some of my batchmates still hold on to this line of thinking. The young entrants to IAS dream of becoming chief/cabinet secretary, IPS people dream of becoming IB director , IRS people Chairman, CBIC/CBDT.
- Bureucracy will see a vast change in the coming decades. The idea of seniority as it is conceived now will be no longer as relevant after a couple of decades. You already know that the government is mulling to retire people after 30/33 years of service.
- You have a long way to go before you reach those policy making positions. You should be more focused on how you plan to shape your career in the next 5 years than in te next 30. See if you enjoy your job. See if power and rank are your only priorities or you prefer luxury and peace of mind.
- Even if you join the department very young, you may not reach the top positions depending on several circumastances outside your control like the political dispensation or how badly you have damaged your health or wheter you have been unlucky enough to piss off a powerful senior/politcian at the very start of your career.
So 27 isnt late to join any service if you like the work and 21 is also too late if you don't.
@MalcolmThe whole glorification of selected candidates on social media is a part of a mega marketing cum misinformation campaign fueled by black money, unaware aspirants and an unethical coaching industry. It is our moral responsibility to fight it.
@MikhailMy source said it would be delayed further by at least another 2 weeks. Not very reliable though.
@NadigVinayI did request someone to request someone in UPSC. They are saying at least 2 more weeks. But second hand anonymous information can't be trusted!
@Gaurav29Absolutely. I don't understand when people say " I asked a friend in service and he said........". People in services are as clueless as any other aspirant. Government departments are so compartmenalized that I don't even know what the guy sitting in the room adjacent to me is up to.
@TaurielExactly. Who the f*#$ is Arun.
Or as Rene Descartes would put it, "Who the f*$# does Arun think he is?"
@RaillifeWahi jo Kashmir ka hua tha 370 hatne ke baad !
@RaillifeOn a serious note, the cornering of top posts by IRTS will stop. I think it is a ploy to increase the pool of available officers for key posts that can be more suitable to the government's liking. I am hearing accounting services are next.
@TETRACYCLINE20th April for results does not seem unrealistic at this point. If Mins results get delcared in the next 40 hours as expected, all the more likely.
@visionmanYou can absolutely mention that in your DAF. No problem at all. Just prepare a few questions like what injuries are common, famous marathons in Inida, famous atheletes, how you will manage it after selection, health benefits.
@AzadHindFauzYou have done a great service. Cheers!
In my experience with insiders, so many infos wouldn't converge unless there were some credibility. I still think that results are nearby. Maybe they will come at 3 or 4 am but they are nearby. When pre results can be announced at 2 A.M. without any urgency, this situation genuinely demands urgent action.
@STI did try during December end. COuldn't get much info except that wait was going to be for more than 2 weeks then. Don't have much credible insiders. Don't like asking for info. Thoda immature lagta.
