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Mains 2023 - In or out?

Kaisa raha mains ka result

jack_Sparrow,curious_kidand16 otherslike this
107.5k views

216 comments

Most of you probably won't know me, I was mainly active here between 2020 and 2022. Most of the people whom I knew are either out of this cycle or selected now. Here's a little about me, ComputerScience engineer graduated in 2018 and appeared for the exam five times in the period 2018-22. Wrote Mains thrice(2019,21 and 22) and appeared for the interview once (2022 cycle). About a year ago I was jubilantly and vigorously gearing up for the interview round and despite the best of my efforts and a threadbare prep where I had done very well in almost all the mock sessions and one-on-ones (including Forum's), I did not find my name in the Holy pdf back in May. Saving you all the pity party :P but goes without saying how rough and challenging it was to take. I am someone who has spent considerable time here and never believed in having a Plan B, each attempt I gave as my last and went in full tilt. 2019 was a novice's setback, as was 2020 (did not even qualify pre), 2021 was crushing (missed cutoff by 10 marks, despite scoring consistently well in MGP, etc), and 2022 well probably no better word other than soul-crushing, from doing well in PTS and MGP and writing the whole test series to the very last interview sitting that I had with Ayush sir everything seemed to fall in place this time but sadly it was not to be eventually. 

I skipped the 2023 prelims (for better or worse I still debate it) and spent the next few weeks pondering and ultimately decided to invest my time in skilling up to try and find a job in the IT sector. I learned Cloud computing and after feverishly applying for jobs ( it was a herculean task to land interviews in the current market) I finally secured a position as a trainee back in mid-October. 

In all honesty, it still hurts like anything despite now probably 7 months have passed, and I will give the final attempt (with the full-time job that I am doing) next year if nothing else just for my own sake and to find closure.

All I can say to the young aspirants is that probably it might not be a bad idea to invest in skilling oneself and having a viable employability option. This exam is notoriously unreliable and honestly most of the exam cycle right now is structured in an unfavorable way from the candidate's perspective, I do not wish to demotivate anyone and I know I would have thought a couple of years ago that only people who fail end up saying such things, but after a while, reality does strike and it is not a bad thing to keep an eye open there. 


Hopefully, the new year brings us all the things that we learn to cherish all our lives. 


Neyawn,Dionysusand34 otherslike this
4.7k views

OUT.

The journey ends here.


The finality of this result hit like a wall.


All the best to those selected.


Goodbye.


P - 6 | M - 4 | I - 0 | Psychology |
GaneshGaitonde,CristianoRonaldoand32 otherslike this
4.8k views
In with anthro 
GaryVee,UK01and29 otherslike this
5.9k views
Always disheartening to see people being dejected after Mains result. This is also because I believe some of you might be one of the brightest people in the country

I am just saying this from my own experiences: The perspective that you gain from this preparation will eventually improve your quality of life. Most of you must have risen above petty gossips and transformed into leaders without even realising it. The ability to think one notch higher than others, emotional resilience & massive perseverance are something that will help you EVERYWHERE. 

Thoda relax karna and just ask yourself whether you want to continue or not. Those who have the PRIVILEGE (read : money & support of parents) and find meaning & excitement in this job, to ek baar dubara dene ka try kar sakte hai. 

To those who have already decided to attempt again,I have just one suggestion(I am no expert but ek baar mere kehne se karke dekh lo) : Open Ishita's (Rank 1) copy, write the answers to the same questions in a timed format and then compare. Just do this once and just be honest with yourself. If you feel your answers are at par with the last written copies of Ishita and Shruti, BLAME THE EXAM. Be proud of your effort and exit the cycle if you want with your head high. 

For others who feel a considerable gap, you will know automatically what needs to be done. 

Don’t depend on Evaluators, they are absolutely useless. Mind it, I am not degrading coaching mentors but evaluators who check your copy. They don’t have the ability or competence to appreciate beautiful ideas which a UPSC professor would definitely do. I have zero sympathies for evaluators. The coaching industry is paying them unnecessarily. They don’t add ANY value especially for someone who has already written 1-2 mains. You guys need a decent teacher or mentor to look at your copies. 

Another thing, notice the flow in Ishita & Shruti’s copies. I have been checking some copies and sadly due to poor socio economic background, some of the students RATTOFY the entire sentences. The issue with this is poor english and sentence formation. This sadly also takes away the ability to frame answers in alignment with the demand of the question especially in dynamic questions that require on the spot thinking & writing. 

A lot of people might not say this but your writing skills do make a massive impact especially in an optional like PSIR and essay. Two of my friends: Ishita and Apala had wonderful writing skills. I mean not only in the exam but they WRITE wonderful POEMS.

Now, I am not saying that you need to develop the same poetic skills but we must at least cultivate the ability to communicate effectively. Just compare your copies and ask yourself whether you’ll give the same marks to her and to the answers that you will write. 

Also these skills are hard to come. They take time. To abhi kar lo invest. I got 99 in essay in 2022 attempt. It became the sole reason that I didn’t get the interview call last year. 

Also, I am naming Ishita because she is my close friend and she has the same optional as me and I know how she thinks. You can chose a similar topper with your background but be careful as I am yet to find anyone as wonderful as her except Ms Shruti Sharma. Both of them are GOLDEN GIRLS 

I don’t believe in fake optimism. I am a realist. Nothing in this small life is worth suffering. Agar tumhara mann hai suffer karna ka to hi suffer karo. If you’re not excited or passionate about this UNCERTAIN exam, you can do great in other fields anyway. Go for it ! 

Lastly, I want to share a quote by Soren Kierkegaard that has now become my guiding star ( I hope you’ll appreciate it) : 


“Marry, and you will regret it; don’t marry, you will also regret it; marry or don’t marry, you will regret it either way. Laugh at the world’s foolishness, you will regret it; weep over it, you will regret that too; laugh at the world’s foolishness or weep over it, you will regret both. Believe a woman, you will regret it; believe her not, you will also regret it… Hang yourself, you will regret it; do not hang yourself, and you will regret that too; hang yourself or don’t hang yourself, you’ll regret it either way; whether you hang yourself or do not hang yourself, you will regret both” 


Also I will have to give some life updates on the people who failed the Mains 2022 with me (Motive is only to uplift as I am a Mains failure myself, ignore if you’re NOT interested) : 

I skipped the 2023 to finish my law in peace which I thoroughly enjoy. In the end the goal is to make a positive impact on the lives of others and law is an excellent way to do that. It has also been a delight to teach so many people in the past year. I may or may not give the exam again. 

Another friend of mine who failed in Mains last year scored a whopping 760 in GMAT. He will leave NABARD to join ISB. 

And another friend of mine who failed 4 mains consecutively finally made it to interview this year in his 5th attempt. 

So life has something for each one of us. But to those who have given more than 3 attempts and don’t have Privileges of birth, just avoid giving attempts mindlessly, please have a backup. Just think & reflect a little and never lose the self belief. 

Wishing you all success, mental, physical and emotional ❤️

P.P.S: Apologies for any typos. I am writing this quickly only for those who have faced a temporary setback in life. I am not a successful person but I believe the above can help you make a better decision. 





Gaitonde’s Den: https://forumias.com/post/detail/Gaitondes-Den-1727638216
Neyawn,Dionysusand28 otherslike this
5.3k views
Out with PSIR :(.  Most of you here will probably not remember me/ know me but I used to be active in 2020-21 cycle a lot on forum.
This was my 5th attempt and 3rd mains. After qualifying my last mains I took it as a given to get through the mains. I’m standing at a crossroads of deciding whether to continue with upsc alongside a job for one attempt or just move on altogether. One of my smartest decisions in hindsight (which I cursed every day in the past) was to get a professional degree. Yes, it was tough to sustain my attempts alongside college assignments and exams, but it was a good decision. Today, if nothing I’m getting job offers from decent schools (I got a B.Ed) and don’t face a future of complete uncertainty. 
My advice to all aspirants is to please upskill your self (it’s not a keyword for answer writing), or at least look into getting back into your core profession after 3 serious attempts. 
GaryVee,NishkamKarmaand26 otherslike this
4.6k views

@GaneshGaitonde GG sir humesha bas ek post se purra reality yaad dilwa dete hai. :D

After my Mains 2022 failure, I thought that I am really close to the cutoff but when the marks were out I saw that my opt score is very low. For CSE 2023, I thought I will read and solve so much that Maths mai "highest" marks lekke aaunga (Sabse badi problem over-ambitious logo ki).

Now that I have failed Mains 2023 again and found Maths Opt to be the culprit, I realised that knowledge doesn't matter that much rather it is the strategy that matters. And how to build it? Mocks and PYQs karo acche se.  

To outline what I have done for Maths - I have solved almost every recommended book for Maths but yet I did not solve and revise PYQs for four important topics. I thought may be this blunder wouldn't matter much BUT UPSC just made me realise that the whole exam is anarrow margingame. 

Every failure is a lesson and I am thankful that I got to know about it when I have two more attempts left. Kuch nahi toh I will have a lifelong lesson from this process. 

Moving forward, I have always lacked guidance in my prep but yes I will save enough money to join Forum MGP this time so that atleast GS ka part accha rahe. Maths ke liye toh idk mocks hi zyada karne honge. Idk marks increase honge ya nahi lekin ab attempt hai toh karke dekh lete hai. Obvio I can't overlook Pre 2024. Usse toh bohot darr hai mujhe xD

To everyone here,thank youfor being a guiding light. Even I don't know many of you personally, I made some really good connections on this platform. I wish that you people find your light some day. For me, I will give my 100% again. Wapas ladenge. Wapas purri jaan lagayenge. Backup toh dhundna hoga hi vo toh kar hi rahe. Ye sab pata nahi kaise hoga lekin I did it for Mains '23 after failing Mains '22 so I will gain the same rigour again. Wapas utni mehnat karenge. For this attempt, I would like to quote Faiz Ahmad Faiz on this aspect- 

"Gar baazi ishq ki baazi hai,

Toh jo bhi laga do darr kaisa,

Jeet gye to baat hi kya,

Haare bhi toh haar nahi…"

Need to gear up for my 5th attempt and plunge into the uncertainty of my 7th year in this prep. For those who exhausted their attempts or might be exhausted with the journey, I know I am not someone who can speak about how you guys are feeling but a small story from my side- 

I failed to get into IIT for UG even after working extremely hard in my drop year. That time was cruel. I was bedridden due to left leg fracture and nerve damage on my hips coupled with efusion on my right knee (This happened back during JEE Adv '16). I cried daily due to the pain of my fracture. I was so sure of my selection in IIT that I did not fill forms for other colleges. I thought everything was over and there's only darkness for me ahead. Most of my then classmates used to laugh at me behind my back. Many relatives mocked me. There were very few who actually understood how I felt. The only thing people saw was the fact that I couldn't get into IIT. They didn't care about what I had faced. I was declared not intelligent, incompetent, useless and what-not. 

But thattime passed as welland I did overcome everything. I eventually got into IIT for PG. I even had a chance to get into IIMs & other good colleges because of a decent score in CAT. All of this with no coaching. I just repeat my own story to myself several times just to motivate myself again.Itne aage aa gaye hai toh aur bhi aage chale jayenge. 

Biggest learning from all these failures is -Things will work out eventually. You just need to be patient. Never stop working hard. Ek din sab theek hojayega. 


"You can't connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future." - Steve Jobs


For CSE Maths 2024 analysis: https://forumias.com/post/detail/Mathematics-Optional-2024-Paper-Analysis-1727851791
Neyawn,GaneshGaitondeand25 otherslike this
4.6k views
Did not do justice to GS last year due to poor recollection. This year created short notes, wrote tests. Revised short notes before every simulation. Revised them before the actual papers. Dipin sir had good words to say this year about me throughout the course which made me feel really good before the papers. In one of the lectures he acknowledged me in class. I made the video of it in my phone camera and used to listen to it everytime I felt low. Being an online student, it was my form of social connect. It helped me stay calm and be confident. I had much better MGP scores this year than 2022.
Made blunders in essay last year (82), joined a crash course this year. Then wrote essay tests to find myself in the Top 10 rankers. The actual essay paper went pretty well. I was particularly happy with my introductions and arguments.
Got 256 in Optional last year and had a very similar attempt this year (Add the extra short notes I made apart from basic intro-conclusion templates which were there from last year; Also had more map entries in Paper 2 than last year i.e. Knew 5 last year, this year 9 (Geography Opt); Much broader and elaborate use of case studies this time) 
I was very satisfied with my attempt this time.
I hardly told anyone that I expect to clear. But deep down I was very confident of getting an interview call even in the worst case (Optional getting butchered) 
The 0 of 0 and No results found have cut me deep. Never have I been so broken in life than this time. My housing society had its cricket tournament the day after the results. Because I had already committed and had paid the contribution I did not back out after the results. For the first time in my life, I was thinking of something else while playing cricket. For the first time I was sad while holding a bat. Dropped a few catches as well as I was not switched on. My mind kept showing me the pdf.
This exam has taken a huge toll on me. I kept on believing that this was my year. Through all the lows, Through the borderline Prelims score. Through the tough days. Through every morning where I felt I could not do more I kept going.
This one's gonna prick for a really long time. Who says time takes care of things.
What's the point of buying autobiographies of civil servants and reading them if I cannot even clear Mains. Nothing seems to make sense right now. 
3 years gone in the bin. 

.

Dionysus,DMand23 otherslike this
6.4k views
What are folks who did not get in planning now? Other than next attempt.

Man, I really expected that I will clear this time. I was preparing for PT. Everything was in order this time. I was preparing without coaching. There are voices ranging from "change optional and take one year break" to "leave UPSC forever and take up a job". I don't know what to do. I gave 6 yrs to this preparation and can't come to terms with 2 Mains failure. It is much like I gain 1 mediocre thing and lose 20 other things. 

I have 2 more attempts left but idk if I can go on anymore. The pressure of appearing for Prelims AGAIN?! And face that 2023-like paper? 

I slogged day and night. I remember opening Vector Analysis on the train back from Ranchi to Dhanbad. My thumb was swollen because of writing so many answers but still I fought my sleep to revise the topic

*Sigh* I don't know if there's any sunrise to this night or if there's any light at the end of the tunnel. 


For CSE Maths 2024 analysis: https://forumias.com/post/detail/Mathematics-Optional-2024-Paper-Analysis-1727851791
Haryana,muskand20 otherslike this
5k views
Did not do justice to GS last year due to poor recollection. This year created short notes, wrote tests. Revised short notes before every simulation. Revised them before the actual papers. Dipin sir had good words to say this year about me throughout the course which made me feel really good before the papers. In one of the lectures he acknowledged me in class. I made the video of it in my phone camera and used to listen to it everytime I felt low. Being an online student, it was my form of social connect. It helped me stay calm and be confident. I had much better MGP scores this year than 2022.
Made blunders in essay last year (82), joined a crash course this year. Then wrote essay tests to find myself in the Top 10 rankers. The actual essay paper went pretty well. I was particularly happy with my introductions and arguments.
Got 256 in Optional last year and had a very similar attempt this year (Add the extra short notes I made apart from basic intro-conclusion templates which were there from last year; Also had more map entries in Paper 2 than last year i.e. Knew 5 last year, this year 9 (Geography Opt); Much broader and elaborate use of case studies this time) 
I was very satisfied with my attempt this time.
I hardly told anyone that I expect to clear. But deep down I was very confident of getting an interview call even in the worst case (Optional getting butchered) 
The 0 of 0 and No results found have cut me deep. Never have I been so broken in life than this time. My housing society had its cricket tournament the day after the results. Because I had already committed and had paid the contribution I did not back out after the results. For the first time in my life, I was thinking of something else while playing cricket. For the first time I was sad while holding a bat. Dropped a few catches as well as I was not switched on. My mind kept showing me the pdf.
This exam has taken a huge toll on me. I kept on believing that this was my year. Through all the lows, Through the borderline Prelims score. Through the tough days. Through every morning where I felt I could not do more I kept going.
This one's gonna prick for a really long time. Who says time takes care of things.
What's the point of buying autobiographies of civil servants and reading them if I cannot even clear Mains. Nothing seems to make sense right now. 
3 years gone in the bin. 
Neyawn,GaryVeeand20 otherslike this
3.9k views

Never knew a result could mean this much. Have let down so many people. 

After 6 pre 2 mains, the journey ends here.

Singing off.

Goodbye UPSC.

GaryVee,Foucault1and19 otherslike this
4.8k views
In with socio
GaryVee,Dead Manand18 otherslike this
6.1k views

Neyawnsaid

» show previous quotes» show previous quotes

How many tests have you written at any coaching or even PYQs? It seems you have no faith in UPSC exam process itself. Barring one or two years, the quality of candidates selected has usually been fair.

It is natural to be pessimistic about the exam and the process and everything associayed with it, but it beats me how you have sustained with this pessimism for over 2-3 years that you have been on this forum.

Did you attempt 2023 mains? Or any of the mains?

Do you have close friends eho have cleared this exam, and have you been able to observe anything in them?


.

indiagaurav,BadmoshRaja69and18 otherslike this
4.5k views

Nice conversations going on here : My views on some points.


1 When neyawn said ," good quality of people get selected every year " ,good certainly mean better .Better means,better in upsc main examination.Better on that day. Just like Travis head on that world Cup final .

Better not means : .Not more intelligent.Not more wise .Not more hardworking.Not more morally good(some criminal minded people clear this exam ). 

Reservation is also a great factor. I never Got a interview call . But my marks are similar in mains to a IPS officer ,who behave like God in many podiums .So for general category candidates the battle is more cruel .

2 This exam is a individual journey. So no amount of coaching and mentorship is going to  help beyond a limit. So coaching their advices,their knowledge about the process helps but should always be taken with a pinch of salt. No body is going to tell you,how to motivate yourself when it's already the ethics paper ,your hands are paining and all case study answer appear similar . 

Also,your strength and weakness balance is also individual. Example a Sikh guy who have poor handwriting but ability to write many substantial points ,getting some top 50 ranks


3.And calling it a humanity paper that needs extra ideas is foolishly simplistic for GS .Humanity is more than generating points(no language );in pro and cons . Mugging and writing govt schemes and data ,also that micro diagrams , diagrams ,flow chart. It is something tough though  masterable with lot of hardwork .But ,to call people who not qualify,short of ideas is just exploiting vulnerabilities . Other points:

a)In humanity you are given 5 years to write a phd thesis and also decent time for semester exams . Also Not 7 mins for a 10 marker. 

b )In humanity you have a ideological point of view . A thought process aligned to your world views and values . Not balance of points ( 5 pros and cons of marital rape law and way forward) . 

4 ) You have to get marks from a 50+ guy. Whose intent may be is to stay ,party and socialize in Ashoka hotel at night . So it's just about not boring him more during day time (copy checking is so boring man ,even 800 rs per 2 hour seems to be a bad job ). Just APPEARING knowledgeable and pleasant on his /her eyes will make you Cabinet secretary one day .

5 ) Coachings and mentorship have a role to play .But not as it is projected . It's buisness .Also  In most of the cases coaching people are those who are not able to exit the process despite not qualifying it . It's their psychological necessity to think that it is doable and teachable . Cognitive dissonance have a role to play here . 

Life is as absurd as that . It's gone be more absurd either you qualify or not . If you have attempt left ,just try to deal with the controllable .Do it for the hug you will get from your mother(or/and  other loved ones ) after doing that . If you don't, earn some money ,take her to a pilgrimage from your money,She(they) will be more than happy.




Neyawn,indiagauravand18 otherslike this
6k views
Did not do justice to GS last year due to poor recollection. This year created short notes, wrote tests. Revised short notes before every simulation. Revised them before the actual papers. Dipin sir had good words to say this year about me throughout the course which made me feel really good before the papers. In one of the lectures he acknowledged me in class. I made the video of it in my phone camera and used to listen to it everytime I felt low. Being an online student, it was my form of social connect. It helped me stay calm and be confident. I had much better MGP scores this year than 2022.
Made blunders in essay last year (82), joined a crash course this year. Then wrote essay tests to find myself in the Top 10 rankers. The actual essay paper went pretty well. I was particularly happy with my introductions and arguments.
Got 256 in Optional last year and had a very similar attempt this year (Add the extra short notes I made apart from basic intro-conclusion templates which were there from last year; Also had more map entries in Paper 2 than last year i.e. Knew 5 last year, this year 9 (Geography Opt); Much broader and elaborate use of case studies this time) 
I was very satisfied with my attempt this time.
I hardly told anyone that I expect to clear. But deep down I was very confident of getting an interview call even in the worst case (Optional getting butchered) 
The 0 of 0 and No results found have cut me deep. Never have I been so broken in life than this time. My housing society had its cricket tournament the day after the results. Because I had already committed and had paid the contribution I did not back out after the results. For the first time in my life, I was thinking of something else while playing cricket. For the first time I was sad while holding a bat. Dropped a few catches as well as I was not switched on. My mind kept showing me the pdf.
This exam has taken a huge toll on me. I kept on believing that this was my year. Through all the lows, Through the borderline Prelims score. Through the tough days. Through every morning where I felt I could not do more I kept going.
This one's gonna prick for a really long time. Who says time takes care of things.
What's the point of buying autobiographies of civil servants and reading them if I cannot even clear Mains. Nothing seems to make sense right now. 
3 years gone in the bin. 

This time feels really heavy, but if there’s one thing I’ve learnt is that hope is that stubborn light that never really dies. You can try to break it, disfigure it; but it lives on as a quiet sleeping ember within us. Please keep your chin up. You fought the good fight. 

This was not your fault; more often than not we’re taught to look for “what went wrong from our end” and that’s good and all. But sometimes it’s not you, it’s the process. Life is not cruel, or partial; it’s just random. 

Neyawn,Dionysusand17 otherslike this
6.5k views

Neyawnsaid

Congratulations@Rashmirathi . Exactly one year back, and now today!

Make it count!

Exactly one year before was happy for friends, now all are happy for me ( Life is a circle ). Now have to work a lot harder 

Thanks a lot to you @Neyawn sir for always being there  ( and the dialogue - गब्बर -जो डर गया समझो मर गया ) 

Neyawn,brownianMotionand16 otherslike this
5.2k views

@tedmosby @LetsGetThisBread @GaryVee When deserving people like you are not in the list, it breaks heart and the success in this exam seems even more elusive. I was expecting your selection as well, have been a silent observant here on this platform since last 3-4 years and have admired your focus, hard work and consistency.
Hope you get the deserving rewards for all the hard work you have put, whether in UPSC or elsewhere. 

GaryVee,Ayushi7and14 otherslike this
4.7k views

today happens to be the last day of 2023 and tomorrow another year would have passed. and right after waking up i knew this is not going to be a good day. i could already foresee the glimpses of the old familiar dark blob of feelings hovering around.  each passing year brings me closer to the question that i used to ask veterans when i was starting upsc prep - jinka nhi hota upsc wo kya karte. i never thought one day it would be me on the other side face to face with this question. i am almost done with upsc and now i think it’s not so much about wo kya karte hai but more about jo bhi karte hai usme kabhi khush reh paate hai kya knowing that they pursued something obsessively sacrificing everything for it (money, time, age, relationships etc) and still didn’t get it.   mujhetoh iit nhi milne ka gum bhi college ke 2nd year tak rha tha or ye tab jab is exam k liye bas 2 saal prep karte. 

now imagine how deeply engraved in your mind something must become if you had been in it for 7-8 years. can time really heal this ? this too shall pass but not immediately not tomorrow not next year but in years. so after enduring pain and grief for 7-8 years of prep you have to endure at least 2-3 more years of pain and sadness - essentially a decade worth of nothing but tears.

granted one must suffer the consequences of one’s decisions. we chose this path willingly out of our own free will with full  knowledge of the risks involved. but it still hurts and no amount of reasoning , rationalising , tark vitark can lessen the pain. it’s like it’squite  easy to preach someone who is depressed that do this, do that , do yoga ,  but it’s only when you yourself are afflicted with it that you understand how hard it is for a depressed person to summon the willpower to even get out of bed let alone do yoga etc. likewise only the person facing this qsn can understand what kind of completely heartbreaking situation it is to be in. 

DM,Foucault1and14 otherslike this
3.3k views

In with Geography

3rd Mains

2nd Interview 

jack_Sparrow,GaryVeeand13 otherslike this
5.4k views

Out. Law. 

जो औरों के साथ होते देखा, आज मेरे साथ भी हुआ !

अब मैं भी तो ढीठ हूँ , इतनी से बात से तो रुकने से रहा।

Yes, in all its practicality its a failure and it will require a lot more effort to turn the tide. But, am not sad, neither lost and I love this version of myself!

Chin up frens!❤



GaryVee,Tanaya_Cand13 otherslike this
4.9k views
OUT. 5th attempt. 3rd mains. Done with UPSC as it has become an ego issue rather than an exam. time to heal and move on.
GaryVee,Foucault1and13 otherslike this
6.1k views
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