See, every year we see this. People quote marks. People who do well brag a bit. Not judging them coz if you got anything above 105 today you deserve a bit of brag. Last year people said 102 103 cutoff. Cutoff stayed put at 98. Obviously as per UPSC key which will always have 1 or 2 changes from shankar or vision. Even in 2018. Cutoff stayed at 97 98 when people quoted 100+ cutoff.
Given this year the paper was way tougher than 2019 2018, we will see atleast a 5 mark drop.
Remember when the pattern first changed in 2018. Yes. Cutoff dropped from 105 to 97. This year will be similar.
92 93 is my call.
Lol it was in that range last year only@rafael . For sure it's gonna go less than 110 this time.
This question will change too
th reference to the international trade of India at present, which of the following statements is/are correct? 1. India’s merchandise exports are less than its merchandise imports. 2. India’s imports of iron and steel, chemicals, fertilisers and machinery have decreased in recent years. 3. India’s exports of services are more than its imports of services. 4. India suffers from an overall trade/current account deficit. Select the correct answer using the code given below: (a) 1 and 2 only (b) 2 and 4 only (c) 3 only (d) 1, 3 and 4 only
India has not been running a CAD for last 2 quarters.
Recently before the exam india also had a trade surplus with a merchandise export surplus
So, UPSC maalik. If general sense, coachinh answer will be correct. If UPSC thinks to go by data on 4th, then 3 only.
This question will change too
th reference to the international trade of India at present, which of the following statements is/are correct? 1. India’s merchandise exports are less than its merchandise imports. 2. India’s imports of iron and steel, chemicals, fertilisers and machinery have decreased in recent years. 3. India’s exports of services are more than its imports of services. 4. India suffers from an overall trade/current account deficit. Select the correct answer using the code given below: (a) 1 and 2 only (b) 2 and 4 only (c) 3 only (d) 1, 3 and 4 only
India has not been running a CAD for last 2 quarters.
Recently before the exam india also had a trade surplus with a merchandise export surplus
So, UPSC maalik. If general sense, coachinh answer will be correct. If UPSC thinks to go by data on 4th, then 3 only.
This one might actually spin. Like the convention followed if no rule present of last time.
I know it's a little out of track but i seriously don't know what better I could have done or what I can do to improve.
Nothing can anyone do. Conventional sources and CA , even newspapers aren't of any help these days. The 25 sitters, most of us have 23 to 25 of them right. The rest is wild guesswork. Whoever gets a pie of the cake engages in a wankfest. Cutoff will drop below 95 to 92 or 93. A lot simping here will be nowhere to be seen when the results are out. And some will say "boy they got me in paper 2" as if its some big achievement to get btfod by class 10 maths.
If you are above 95 by conservative estimates, just study. You will be in. And a lot of just borderline pre clearing bunch turn out be top rankers every year, year after year
QUESTION HAS A VERY BIG TERM , AT PRESENT. IT NEVER SAID ANNUALLY OR ANYTHING.
INDIA DOESNT HAVE A CAD IN THE LAST 2 QUARTERS.
The best "evidence" of whether an exam was easy or tough is available in that 3 hour gap between paper 1 and paper 2. People already had an expectation of the difficulty levels of order of 2018 and 2019. Now, that's not exactly what you can call "easy". So people were mentally prepared already for a 2019 esque question. And even after that they were feeling burned and bummed by this years prelims.
Exactly shows how *easy* it was.
Cutoffs will be 93 esque. Jiska 95se upar hain, lag jao. Ek toh ghatiya paper, upar se ghatiya turnout thanks to.covid.
Upsc will call round 10000 for mains anyhow.
Apart from rukmabhai and that "trade and CAD one"(depending on interpretation of presently) nothing will change.
In UPSC everywhere you see the word consistently, steadily, every year, all the years, you just strike it off. That has how it has always been since 2017. We can go into the semantics of it but it never changes.
Also we hardly had 45 50 people taking exam in our centre. Don't know how it is across india, but turnout was low in my city
Anyone getting above 105, you guys not only prepped well, but you also had mad luck. I thought I had an okayishly good exam at 60 61 correct and 30 wrong (take into context that I don't appear for IFOS so not interested) but seeing you people I have to reevaluate my position I guess.
Also, if you people are still shilling for PT I think you should stop. Pt has become irrelevant since 2018. I mean there's so much more chance that if you memorize the wiki pages of all national parks and sanctuaries you will at Least get 3 4 questions out of it. That would be like 500 pages, but that's more effective at Least than the 500 pages of PT we study every year.
And ancient and medieval are damn difficult. Back in 2016 17 questions like dwarasamudra and deuskar and dronvapa would be ranked as difficult. Today they are ranked as moderate.
Yes people have guessed. Some like me got the stick. Some went lucky. But even in the toughest and most absurd questions, there's always 25% chance that even a class kg kid would land up with correct answer. There's nothing "amazing" about it tbh.
On lisa interferometer, seems they have this equilateral triangle thing too
Source : https://directory.eoportal.org/web/eoportal/satellite-missions/l/lisa-pathfinder
Explains both Lisa interferometer and elisa at depth
LISA Pathfinder is a necessary precursor mission for LISA, the joint ESA and NASA formation-flying mission (launch planned for 2034) of three spacecraft. The goal of the LISA fundamental physics mission is to detect low-frequency gravitational waves in the range of 10-4 to 10-1 Hz (according to Einstein's Theory of General Relativity the force of large gravity changes, generated by a collapsing star or an entire galaxy, will produce tiny ripples of gravity waves) - requiring technologies that have so far never been tested. With the detection of these waves, which for example originate from black holes in close orbit around each other, an entirely new window to the universe will be opened.
In this concept, the three LISA spacecraft constellation form an equilateral triangle (a giant interferometer) with an armlength of 5 million km, inclined by 60º against the ecliptic (Figure 2). Plans call for LISA's trio of spacecraft to orbit the sun at the same distance as Earth, but trailing about 50 million km in orbit behind our planet (representing an angle of about 20º with respect to the Earth-Sun direction). 7) 8)
Read the hindi version. Bharat ka CAD ho raha hain. That's wrong. Simply wrong
The overall current account deficit trade account deficit is probably wrong by most coachings. India presently doesn't run any of trade or CAD and neither has merchandise deficit .
https://pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetailm.aspx?PRID=1660969
Latest pib data. India has a merchandise deficit in September. Saw another pib article for data till Jun(I think) somewhere. It says India has merchandise deficit and services surplus
India doesn't have an overall trade or CAD, so option 4 isn't correct anyhow.
The overall current account deficit trade account deficit is probably wrong by most coachings. India presently doesn't run any of trade or CAD and neither has merchandise deficit .
https://pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetailm.aspx?PRID=1660969
Latest pib data. India has a merchandise deficit in September. Saw another pib article for data till Jun(I think) somewhere. It says India has merchandise deficit and services surplus
India doesn't have an overall trade or CAD, so option 4 isn't correct anyhow.
Don't know man..it seems there is no option given that is correct 🙄
That's the truth actually. It's not about annual data when both in hindi and english they stress on presently. Check the hindi version. Bharat ka CAD chal raha hai. Tbh all options seem a bit off.
The overall current account deficit trade account deficit is probably wrong by most coachings. India presently doesn't run any of trade or CAD and neither has merchandise deficit .
https://pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetailm.aspx?PRID=1660969
Latest pib data. India has a merchandise deficit in September. Saw another pib article for data till Jun(I think) somewhere. It says India has merchandise deficit and services surplus
India doesn't have an overall trade or CAD, so option 4 isn't correct anyhow.
Don't know man..it seems there is no option given that is correct 🙄
That's the truth actually. It's not about annual data when both in hindi and english they stress on presently. Check the hindi version. Bharat ka CAD chal raha hai. Tbh all options seem a bit off.
https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1654586
Here you go. This is the latest that I could find. Can't Google anymore😁
Trade surplus brother. 😂😆
The overall current account deficit trade account deficit is probably wrong by most coachings. India presently doesn't run any of trade or CAD and neither has merchandise deficit .
https://pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetailm.aspx?PRID=1660969
Latest pib data. India has a merchandise deficit in September. Saw another pib article for data till Jun(I think) somewhere. It says India has merchandise deficit and services surplus
India doesn't have an overall trade or CAD, so option 4 isn't correct anyhow.
Don't know man..it seems there is no option given that is correct 🙄
That's the truth actually. It's not about annual data when both in hindi and english they stress on presently. Check the hindi version. Bharat ka CAD chal raha hai. Tbh all options seem a bit off.
https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1654586
Here you go. This is the latest that I could find. Can't Google anymore😁
Trade surplus brother. 😂😆
Trade surplus now but merchandise deficit as well. But there is no option saying 1 and 3.
So, the question framer kept the entire year in mind since in that case we have an option 1,3 and 4 which doesn't contradict. Poorly framed question but the answer is D. This is bad because it is punishing people who are updated about the fact that we have a surplus this quarter.
Yeh kaisa baat hai, why do you add the word presently then? Because presently if anything we have done consistently that's to have a service surplus. Bar that both are wrong as we don't have a merchandize deficit every quarter and we aren't having a CAD for 2 quarters now.
Anyways will drop a representation against this question
UPSC paper statement:
1.According to the Constitution of India, a person who is eligible to vote can be made a minister in a State for six months even if he/she is not a member of the Legislature of that State.
shouldnt be this correct? CM of Maharashtra Udhhav Thakare was CM even though he is not member of SLA or SLC
Bhai this depends on UPSC s interpretation. Please don't take marks for this q. If UPSC took it as a general statement it will be A. If UPSC means specifically as it seems to me it will be D. UPSC has pulled a lot of bummers over time, like the harapan ghora. So leave this on UPSC.
@SantiCazorla Same thoughts here since quarterly or yearly not mentioned and there is no option as 1,3, we should take option D as correct. Moreover Trade deficit(GOOD AND SERVICES IMPORT AND EXPORT) and CAD( Goods,services , interest and transfers) are different, why UPSC has written CAD/ TRADE deficit in the option.
So here the debate is about whether the answer is inclusive of the inappropriate answer or exclusive of the inappropriate. The problem with exclusive one is that it leaves 1 appropriate statement out. The problem with the inclusive one is that it takes a very wrong claim as true.
I mean they could use the word annually. Why use presently.
Fuck man. I did it correct and then changed it coz I thought UPSC put the word presently consciously
@Biradar In constitution of india voting criteria is not mentioned, this statement is incorrect. Voting as a criteria is mentioned in ROPA 1951.
The option seems incorrect even by the age fact. That 18 years thing.
Regarding the Trade Deficit question:
It seems highly likely that this paper is the same as the one set for May 31st, which would have been finalised by April end. The answers/references would have been finalised at that point as well.
At that time there was a CAD and a Merchandise export deficit, which gels with what coaching keys are showing.
No there wasn't a CAD DEFICIT in last 2 quarters.https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economictimes.com/news/economy/finance/indias-current-account-surplus-rises-to-19-8-billion-in-june-quarter/amp_articleshow/78403248.cms
please confirm the answer of RAKHMABAI CASE's & Desher katha's answer....? ANYONE
In Rakhmabai... I think it is not related to education... i read whole case... there was nothing related to v women's education '??
?
And regarding desher katha?
AND REGARDING AADHAR QUESTION... Irdai on 1st of September has made it mandatory for imsuramce POLICIES...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.paisabazaar.com/aadhar-card/irdai-makes-aadhaar-linking-with-insurance-policies-mandatory/amp/
This guy also wrote in hindi and marathi .. I dnt see a reason why he wld refer "desh" as only bengal . There is hindi translation of this book as well . Someone had shared a link of article plz check .
https://www.google.com/amp/s/hindi.thebetterindia.com/9021/sakharam-ganesh-deuskar-freedom-fighter/
I think this 1,2 is correct as the third statement is true about Anandmath and they had replaced the name of the book here. The statement has to be picked from somewhere.
Deushkar in desher kotha was pretty much exclusively talking about drain of wealth from bengal region. So the context might be bengal.
@Biradar So my logic is thus:
RBI reports all such data on a lag because of the time taken to report such data. 2020 Q1 data becomes available only at the start of Q3, for e.g.
Q1 and Q2 data indicate surpluses, but that info only becomes available at the end of June/beginning of july, well after the paper was set (assuming this is the same paper as the one originally planned for May).
As it is, FY data still indicates a deficit, it's only quarterly data. The fact that they didn't clarify which they meant is a problem, but I would assume FY because that's more normal for discussions, especially when they used the word "overall." And in March, reports were coming in of 2019 Q4 CAD narrowing massively but still being a deficit.
Bhai the word overall is used for quarterly too (check pib). Overall just means across all accounts. The wording is absolutely vague and nonsensical. Why use the word presently while all you mean is annually
Non Financial debt - The debt held by governments, households, and companies not in the financial sector.
Here the crux is financial sector!! Government, Household and Companies together are exhaustive subsets of economy.
But Credit Card and Housing loans are for non Financial purpose.
But T-bill can be for financial/business purpose? Companies/Banks/FPIs/Businesses invest in T-bill to earn money as it is one of the safest way!! How can it be non-financial debt?
Well there can be company credit cards for such companies in the financial sector too. Maybe that's the reasoning why shankar gave 3 only. Amount outstanding in credit cards thus may not be non financial in that sense.
Noun. nonfinancial debt (countable and uncountable, plural nonfinancial debts) (finance)The debt held by
- governments,
- households, and
- companies not in the financial sector.
Housing loans owed by households = non fin debt
amounts outstanding on credit cards = do credit cards exist for fin companies as a whole? But generally speaking, credit card debt is again held by households which makes it a non financial debt.
T- Bills is debt held by govt. Again a non-fin debt.
When do financial corps incur debt? Not when they invest in t-bills but when they float bonds or take out loans from banks. None of the given options seem to fall under this condition.
I opted for 3 only but now it looks like all 3 are non-fin debt, generally speaking, which is what UPSC tends to consider.
Yes credit cards can exist for nbfc n FIs. That was shankars thinking, as u can see. Thu option 2 is vague. It can be both 123 or 3 only. Depends on upscs intention to ask 2
@Biradar I did not get you completely. Is there a NBFC A with its name A on a credit card? I am seeing news reports of NBFCs wanting to issue credit cards but none about them having credit cards in their own name or even them being permitted to issue credit cards to individuals.
No not issuing credit cards. I am saying they might have business credit cards to their name. Otherwise what can be the reason for 3 only?
Vajirams explanation on t billls
54. In the context of the Indian economy, non-financial debt includes which of the following? 1. Housing loans owed by households. 2. Amounts outstanding on credit cards 3. Treasury bills Select the correct answer using the code given below: (a) 1 only (b) 1 and 2 only (c) 3 only (d) 1, 2 and 3 Answer: (d) Explanation: Therefore, the correct answer is (d). Explanation:Non-financial debt consists of credit instruments issued by governmental entities, households and businesses that are not included in the financial sector. It shares most of the same characteristics with financial debt, except the issuers are non-financial. It includes industrial or commercial loans, T bills
Issued by ka matlab toh bilkul alag hain ab. If it's issued by shankar is correct. If its not, vajiram is.
@Tyler Durden Bina tukkebazike is paper me 45-50 questions ke upar surety ke saathsolve karna mushkil tha, for a well prepared student. Uske baad calulated risk aur tukka hi tha. Aur agar cut off 95 ke upar jaata hai matlab tukka public jeet rahi hai.
It's true. People attempt more questions these days thinking that net gain will be positive. And every option has 25% chance of being correct. If you eliminate 1 or 2 options, that probability even increases. And if you mark 1 answer correct by fluke also, it will make up for 3 incorrect answers marks-wise. People like this trade off. It's like gambling. From what I have seen, people who loose in this process are mostly the ones who attempt less.
Thats so true. I went with a predetermined mindset of attempting 40 sure shot questions in first round. But the sheer length of question paper made me attempt 78 in total whereas I wanted it to be 90 given the nature of question paper. But that never came for questions beyond question 88. I dont know if I would have gotten net correct in those remaining 8/12 unattended 2nd round ones. This exam is ruthless. UPSC sure didnt want people to go and write with a preset mindset. :(
PS: I havent even checked the answer key yet. Just googled everything and found 18 wrong. I wont even check answer key. What is the point? UPSC is what it is. These discussions about AI, non financial debt are pointless. :)
pointless nahi hain , idhar se concept clear karke state psc mein lagayege na apan 😂😆
On a serious note, prelims since 2018 has become mostly about luck and a good day. Till 2017, we used to know like 50 52 questions ka answers and rest we depended on guessmastergiri. By 2019, we used to know 35 40 questions la answers. Remainder guessmastergiri. Now from 2020, we will know 25 28 questions ka answers. Dheere dheere conservative attempt wale are being forced to do tukkebazi or exit the race.
I have always told this. The exam is "actually an exam" from mains onwards. Prelims is just like that first buzzer round of KBC where people with most pathetic backstories win 😂😆🤣
The tragedy nowadays is that, people who were in 130s last year are struggling to make mere 100 this year. People who were in 70s last year have soared to 120+, which is egalitarian, true, but doesn't guarantee that the same 120 guy will not return a sub 90 score next year.
Moral of the story - prelims is trash.
Also , about Current Account deficit, haven't we become current account surplus country ?
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/finance/indias-current-account-surplus-rises-to-19-8-billion-in-june-quarter/videoshow/78404166.cms
Bhai it has been discussed here already. If you read presently as annually you are safe. Else you have marked it wrong. Or that's what the consensus is as of now.
@Shubz true! In the financial one, 123 is right! (I got it wrong too) and in the AI one, no wireless electrical transmission is possible currently. (I got this one right!) It seems damn absurd that UPSC would use some obscure experiment to say wireless energy transmission is possible at the present state of AI. And no matter what one says, AI has nothing to do with this energy business. And in the financial one, all legitimate sources say 123 is right! So this discussion doesn’t help anyone
Shankar exits the chat.
@gauravbrly409 Very unfair to a Hindi Medium friend of mine. Does UPSC have to be that cruel? And with all due respect to the mighty institution..that casual about translation?
Please drop a representation.
@Biradar I doubt majority of the people would have attempted rakhmabhai and deuskar. I never heard let alone read these names.
What?? You are telling me that the 85 90 plus wale attempt junta which includes almost 85 90 percent of the whole attempt ing junta left fucking history questions? I doubt it, log to bc ancient pe bhi risk leke laga liye, agri pe bhi. Obviously a percentage would have left it, but i doubt it includes most people
@gauravbrly409 only one institute has given it correct on u tube
and also FYI .
Sankars 2019 key has 9 different answers than official key.
and Vajirams has 11 differences than official. .
Vision had 6 variations only.
Both are top.
What ???? 9 changes???
what we require is a good lawyer who can force UPSC to declare answer key. what kind of transparency is this. all major exams jee neet even declare omr, this exam makes bureaucrats and they hide under secrecy which they also do after they become one.
they have zero respect for people who prepare, prime of their life is destroyed and all the anxiety and BP killed students...
We should really look for a good lawyer.
Bhai even state pscs are declaring keys these days in 2 3 days post exam. Transparency, my foot
@kranthibudumuri2160 polity and history were sitters. Hence cutoff will be slightly higher i feel....101-103 i feel. Dont get disheartened if anyonr is in 90s you have great potential and even if you dont get selected work hard for mains
In any case you are getting ousted in mains, so hey, hustle and hard work for 2021, it seems.
@kartikeybhatt171778 it is D. the question asked revolved around and not exactly the matter of case. There were many articles discussing about female education due to the case
This is what happens when you do blind guesswork and expect your fucked off answers to be right.
Typical Forum Ias discussions. Those who somehow are on the borderline are intimidated by the high cutoff predictions by some wicked souls. In the process, many miss preparing nicely for Mains.
Dropping a spoiler(may be absolutely wrong)-Those predicting higher cutoffs are either,
1. Those who haven't even appeared ,or
2.Those who are far from cutoff and are trying to make sure that they spoil the game of others ,or
3. Those who are infact scoring very high but are poorly prepared for Mains.
Beware of these 3 types of aspirants.
*I missed last year's cutoff by a whisker(was getting around 100 in various keys). This year around, I am in the range of 95-99, so again in that zone. I may be biased towards low cutoff due to my situational crisis but that doesn't take away the fact that I stand by the observations made above.
Rather than preaching, go and study yourself.
Everyone here is mature enough to know what to do and what not to do. And I don't think anyone bar uppcs and extravagantly studious people are back to studies 2 days from the exam. Now go, study, sleep, play or do whatever but don't preach.
Even if we Consider last year's preparation level of students ----
1--The tough question paper will lead to atleast 1 mistake under pressure by a general student. This will result in reducing an avg of 2.67 marks.
2--to save negatives many of us reduced their attempted questions. (At least 1 mark difference)
3-- corona crises, less prep due to closure of coachings, library etc, last attempt candidates(within age limit ) preferred skipping this attempt etc etc factor(not seen before) .... 1 question reduced(-2.67)...
So cut off will be around 98-2.67-2.67-1=91.66
Also, even if upsc provides the paper in Persian language some of the candidates will still score 110+
so don't loose hope nearly 10,000 will write mains and cut off will be below 93/94.
Take a bow for last point .. Paper in persian ans still 110 . .. Some guys have uncanny ability to fix things up.
Nowadays the avg upsc aspirant.
Step 1 : opens qp
Step 2 : sees hebrew
Step 3 : understands nothing
Step 4 : marks all of the above.
Step 5 : Peace/piss (depending on the answer key)
Even if we Consider last year's preparation level of students ----
1--The tough question paper will lead to atleast 1 mistake under pressure by a general student. This will result in reducing an avg of 2.67 marks.
2--to save negatives many of us reduced their attempted questions. (At least 1 mark difference)
3-- corona crises, less prep due to closure of coachings, library etc, last attempt candidates(within age limit ) preferred skipping this attempt etc etc factor(not seen before) .... 1 question reduced(-2.67)...
So cut off will be around 98-2.67-2.67-1=91.66
Also, even if upsc provides the paper in Persian language some of the candidates will still score 110+
Take a bow for last point .. Paper in persian ans still 110 . .. Some guys have uncanny ability to fix things up.
Nowadays the avg upsc aspirant.
Step 1 : opens qp
Step 2 : sees hebrew
Step 3 : understands nothing
Step 4 : marks all of the above.
Step 5 : Peace/piss (depending on the answer key)
I've literally seen many aspirants who talks shit all day on telegram, flirts with other people on groups getting 120+ marks. And people who study sincerely for 8-9 hrs without using telegram and forum getting marks in 80's. I wonder what is happening here!
Nothing. You are weird if you think that preparation matters in this exam beyond a threshold. Even in mains you will study every nook and cranny and they will ask about spinnaker and neurocomputing and you will struggle to fill a page.
For every 1000 serious aspirants at most 5 6 will make it. And then you have those lower services that are tbh worse than the better services of state psc. A massive 995 are doomed to retake the exam again and you are a fool if you think studying 24 hours will change a lot
Cutoff 92 93 hi rahega. Usse kam maybe. Anything from 90 to 93. This is as per UPSC key. Which will have 4 5 different answers than coaching keys. A drop of atleast 5 6 marks will be there logically, just based on paper. There has been low turnout. And good luck if you think 10,000 people have gone and aced the paper with >100 scores.
Which state services are better than services under UPSC exam...
To me I would prefer sdm than afhq or danics (plagued by very poor promotion), and such services. Call it whatever but that's my preference criteria. Tbh neither I have much respect for services like IIS, it seems too boring and event managementesque for me. Obviously given I haven't qualified for the final list ever I shouldn't be making such "claims", but then that's my personal opinion.
@Sappling Can u write ur definition of what u r tryin to imply by NFD..
Bhai NFD is based on issuer of debt. That's the problem.
He talks abt situation in malabar.. kanpur.. general economic decline . Book is nt specifically for bengal . Thorough word desh he might be refering to specific geographical regions in india and nt just bengal ...
I read through few pages of the text, and he limits his economic theorizing almost exclusively to bengal. Say whatever, but am still not convinced on what he meant. Amycase , I am counting it as -ve so doesn't matter
http://dspace.wbpublibnet.gov.in:8080/jspui/handle/10689/1231
@jagteshwar_sohal25614 The keys are saying wrong coz the just do a general google search and then they see bengal word and the language bengali they conclude he meant bengal.in history everything depends on the verbatim, what historians think about something. This is directly lifted from Ishita dube and she clearly explains this whole context in 2 pages.
I agree with you, on this. Actually given upsc picks questions from a book or source and generally sticks with the interpretation of that source, I am nudged to believe it will be 1n2 only. Though am not entirely convinced on what he meant by desh.
@Sappling its unlikely to be T bills alone..will be 123
I think you are missing the word "sector" and "corporation"
What's the deal with the minister question?
I'm not going back to see where's the doubt. D hoga uska answer. What's the doubt
People are saying the wording is of a generalist nature. Last time upsc did one with rules followed are same as loksabha , it went with general option while coachings did a lot of hair splitting on obscure rules. So some coaching centres are just saying that it was based on art 164(4).
@Biradar question mentions According to the constitution so one has to be specific here. In Art 164(4) it is mentioned that a minister who is not a member of state legislature for 6 consecutive months shall cease to be a minister after expiration of that period. Here voter criteria is not mentioned, voter as a qualification to be member of legislature is mentioned in ROPA 1951. Answer to this question is D in all probability.
I have marked D , so fren you are preaching to the choir.
What's the deal with the minister question?
I'm not going back to see where's the doubt. D hoga uska answer. What's the doubt
People are saying the wording is of a generalist nature. Last time upsc did one with rules followed are same as loksabha , it went with general option while coachings did a lot of hair splitting on obscure rules. So some coaching centres are just saying that it was based on art 164(4).
Wait. Now I understand.
That's like a super broad interpretation of art 164(4).
On that note, a 10 year old can be made a minister for less than 6 months, and constitutionally it'll be valid?
Bhai legislature ka criteria hi fulfil nahi karana to kisi ko bhi bana do.
Again, I marked D so whom are ye preaching, monsieur 😂😆🤣
This year, Shankar is gonna be so wrong. .. Cutoff will be
Gen =92-95
EWS= 89-92
OBC= 90-93
SC= 78-82
ST= 73-78
actually it will be higher than shankar's prediction. they have seriously underestimated how high people are scoring this year
There are always some people, who score way higher .. I am an ST candidate, serving in State services , giving prelims since 2012, cleared prelims 5 times, appeared in PT 3 times. You must have been undergrad, or in high school by then. Trust me when I say, the cutoff won’t go higher this year than what i quoted earlier
ignoring your condescending tone, why dont you check out some of the polls? there are not just "some" people scoring high, its way too many. This year's options were set up in such a manner that anyone taking so called obvious guesses (typical prelims tricks) is scoring high.
For proof, u can check out polls. Even polls of reputed institutes like insights say almost 4-5k people above 105 in a sample of 20k, so you can do the math.
Now an experienced candidate like you will argue that polls are filled with fake scores, or insights is not a reputed institute, so go ahead believe what you want.
Also, coaching institutes 1. have an achor bias to previous year cutoffs, they are particularly scared to go higher. they may go lower when papeer is more difficult, but they tend to not go higher as seen in 2016 (compared to 2015). 2. lower cutoffs= more test series sold.
obviously above points are disputed. But this is the most objective way to look at it
Tougher paper, lesser appearing candidates and yet cutoff going higher. Yes that's strong logic right there.
Nope.
In the world of UPSC ..is BYJU's even a real thing? Their own notes probably have the ugliest font possible. Here people are disowning established names like Baburam and Veejan like rotten potatoes.
And seriously 9 marks ka range dekeapni bachi hui credibility bhi damage kar rhe wo log.
Revolutionizing the teaching industry, yeah sure
This year, Shankar is gonna be so wrong. .. Cutoff will be
Gen =92-95
EWS= 89-92
OBC= 90-93
SC= 78-82
ST= 73-78
actually it will be higher than shankar's prediction. they have seriously underestimated how high people are scoring this year
There are always some people, who score way higher .. I am an ST candidate, serving in State services , giving prelims since 2012, cleared prelims 5 times, appeared in PT 3 times. You must have been undergrad, or in high school by then. Trust me when I say, the cutoff won’t go higher this year than what i quoted earlier
ignoring your condescending tone, why dont you check out some of the polls? there are not just "some" people scoring high, its way too many. This year's options were set up in such a manner that anyone taking so called obvious guesses (typical prelims tricks) is scoring high.
For proof, u can check out polls. Even polls of reputed institutes like insights say almost 4-5k people above 105 in a sample of 20k, so you can do the math.
Now an experienced candidate like you will argue that polls are filled with fake scores, or insights is not a reputed institute, so go ahead believe what you want.
Also, coaching institutes 1. have an achor bias to previous year cutoffs, they are particularly scared to go higher. they may go lower when papeer is more difficult, but they tend to not go higher as seen in 2016 (compared to 2015). 2. lower cutoffs= more test series sold.
obviously above points are disputed. But this is the most objective way to look at it
Tougher paper, lesser appearing candidates and yet cutoff going higher. Yes that's strong logic right there.
only non-serious candidates dont appear, serious ones won't skip for the fear of corona or anything else (majority of them)
Are you really that smoothbrained to think that there won't be any drop in cutoff even though turnouts have been 50 60% of normal? Ah man. Its sad
This year, Shankar is gonna be so wrong. .. Cutoff will be
Gen =92-95
EWS= 89-92
OBC= 90-93
SC= 78-82
ST= 73-78
actually it will be higher than shankar's prediction. they have seriously underestimated how high people are scoring this year
There are always some people, who score way higher .. I am an ST candidate, serving in State services , giving prelims since 2012, cleared prelims 5 times, appeared in PT 3 times. You must have been undergrad, or in high school by then. Trust me when I say, the cutoff won’t go higher this year than what i quoted earlier
ignoring your condescending tone, why dont you check out some of the polls? there are not just "some" people scoring high, its way too many. This year's options were set up in such a manner that anyone taking so called obvious guesses (typical prelims tricks) is scoring high.
For proof, u can check out polls. Even polls of reputed institutes like insights say almost 4-5k people above 105 in a sample of 20k, so you can do the math.
Now an experienced candidate like you will argue that polls are filled with fake scores, or insights is not a reputed institute, so go ahead believe what you want.
Also, coaching institutes 1. have an achor bias to previous year cutoffs, they are particularly scared to go higher. they may go lower when papeer is more difficult, but they tend to not go higher as seen in 2016 (compared to 2015). 2. lower cutoffs= more test series sold.
obviously above points are disputed. But this is the most objective way to look at it
Tougher paper, lesser appearing candidates and yet cutoff going higher. Yes that's strong logic right there.
only non-serious candidates dont appear, serious ones won't skip for the fear of corona or anything else (majority of them)
Are you really that smoothbrained to think that there won't be any drop in cutoff even though turnouts have been 50 60% of normal? Ah man. Its sad
Every year only about 50% people appear of the total registered. Similar this year, of course lesser than previous years but not 50-60% less. You can satisfy your ego with whatever you like, but majority (not all) serious candidates who have prepared hard won't skip for the fear of covid. Its sad that your "smoothbrain" cant apply simple logic.
Amar dombe patil, is that you?
This year, Shankar is gonna be so wrong. .. Cutoff will be
Gen =92-95
EWS= 89-92
OBC= 90-93
SC= 78-82
ST= 73-78
actually it will be higher than shankar's prediction. they have seriously underestimated how high people are scoring this year
There are always some people, who score way higher .. I am an ST candidate, serving in State services , giving prelims since 2012, cleared prelims 5 times, appeared in PT 3 times. You must have been undergrad, or in high school by then. Trust me when I say, the cutoff won’t go higher this year than what i quoted earlier
ignoring your condescending tone, why dont you check out some of the polls? there are not just "some" people scoring high, its way too many. This year's options were set up in such a manner that anyone taking so called obvious guesses (typical prelims tricks) is scoring high.
For proof, u can check out polls. Even polls of reputed institutes like insights say almost 4-5k people above 105 in a sample of 20k, so you can do the math.
Now an experienced candidate like you will argue that polls are filled with fake scores, or insights is not a reputed institute, so go ahead believe what you want.
Also, coaching institutes 1. have an achor bias to previous year cutoffs, they are particularly scared to go higher. they may go lower when papeer is more difficult, but they tend to not go higher as seen in 2016 (compared to 2015). 2. lower cutoffs= more test series sold.
obviously above points are disputed. But this is the most objective way to look at it
Tougher paper, lesser appearing candidates and yet cutoff going higher. Yes that's strong logic right there.
only non-serious candidates dont appear, serious ones won't skip for the fear of corona or anything else (majority of them)
Are you really that smoothbrained to think that there won't be any drop in cutoff even though turnouts have been 50 60% of normal? Ah man. Its sad
Every year only about 50% people appear of the total registered. Similar this year, of course lesser than previous years but not 50-60% less. You can satisfy your ego with whatever you like, but majority (not all) serious candidates who have prepared hard won't skip for the fear of covid. Its sad that your "smoothbrain" cant apply simple logic.
Stop chimping mate. I have seen qualified candidates who made it to services skip this year coz covid. Most upsc aspirants who have a good enough job as in sebi, nabard, rbi, or in state admin didn't appear in the swathes they normally do
Further, your puny ass might have been predicting 105 cutoffs in 2019, 110 cutoffs in 2018, but all of that mattered prolly as much as zilch.
Tougher exams automatically translates to lower cutoffs. If your simpleton brain doesn't comprehend this, I doubt you are passing the CSAT paper anyways.
This year, Shankar is gonna be so wrong. .. Cutoff will be
Gen =92-95
EWS= 89-92
OBC= 90-93
SC= 78-82
ST= 73-78
actually it will be higher than shankar's prediction. they have seriously underestimated how high people are scoring this year
There are always some people, who score way higher .. I am an ST candidate, serving in State services , giving prelims since 2012, cleared prelims 5 times, appeared in PT 3 times. You must have been undergrad, or in high school by then. Trust me when I say, the cutoff won’t go higher this year than what i quoted earlier
ignoring your condescending tone, why dont you check out some of the polls? there are not just "some" people scoring high, its way too many. This year's options were set up in such a manner that anyone taking so called obvious guesses (typical prelims tricks) is scoring high.
For proof, u can check out polls. Even polls of reputed institutes like insights say almost 4-5k people above 105 in a sample of 20k, so you can do the math.
Now an experienced candidate like you will argue that polls are filled with fake scores, or insights is not a reputed institute, so go ahead believe what you want.
Also, coaching institutes 1. have an achor bias to previous year cutoffs, they are particularly scared to go higher. they may go lower when papeer is more difficult, but they tend to not go higher as seen in 2016 (compared to 2015). 2. lower cutoffs= more test series sold.
obviously above points are disputed. But this is the most objective way to look at it
Tougher paper, lesser appearing candidates and yet cutoff going higher. Yes that's strong logic right there.
only non-serious candidates dont appear, serious ones won't skip for the fear of corona or anything else (majority of them)
Are you really that smoothbrained to think that there won't be any drop in cutoff even though turnouts have been 50 60% of normal? Ah man. Its sad
Every year only about 50% people appear of the total registered. Similar this year, of course lesser than previous years but not 50-60% less. You can satisfy your ego with whatever you like, but majority (not all) serious candidates who have prepared hard won't skip for the fear of covid. Its sad that your "smoothbrain" cant apply simple logic.
Amar dombe patil, is that you?
ah. dropping to even more pathetic levels. expected from people like you
Spam on insights threads mate. Why puke on this little good circlejerk of ours
@Biradar in that case everyone will get marks who has attempted or no one will get marks ?
It does not matter in the competition in either cases .. One who has marked correct and added to his marks ll loose big as no more advantage .
I think all those who attempted get marks. That's how it works. Those who skipped don't get marks
@Biradar Who is this Amar Dombe Patil? I remember a guy with same name peer reviewing my answers when I used to post my Answers on Insights.*He used to write brilliant answers.
Bohot bara feku tha. He's a legendary turner of the ball. Much more than warne or muralitharan. 😎😎😎😎
The only true controversial questions
1. Non financial debt. Well the definition of this is problematic af. Most webpages have this written as "issuer" of debt, in which case 3 only. Reading it in context of ibc its 3 only.
2. Minister ->6 months (this to me should be D, but UPSC has used the word "can", and there's no limiting terms like all or any, so can't rub off the notion that UPSC treats that as a general statement)
3. Desher katha. This will ultimately depend on what UPSC considers was deuskars context. Chances are towards 1n2 though.
Don't think rest are doubtful or anything. Rakhmabai is settled at 2n3 and preamble should be D as SC clearly stated that the objectives of preamble are a part of basic structure, and secularism has been kept as a reason for using 356 in bommai. Also, FRs do reflect objectives of the preamble. Thus while obviously the idea of liberty equality doesn't have a legal sanction associated, you can obviously generate a legal sanction wrt the FR that guarantees u the same.
Blockchain, AI aren't really controversial. We shouldn't take every question that some other institution has marked different as controversial, coz then unacadrmys jatin verma has lisa pathfinder as answer, which we should accept is wrong.
Apart from these there will be added impact of cancellation of the gandhi irwin question. That's most probably 2 marks gone for all, which means cutoff will drop by 2 marks, in all probability.
To me, vision has gone for mindless overkill. The explanations are low quality. And it has tried to do the sasta trick of how its test series were good and shite. Tho, truth remains, bar barasingha and Interest coverage ratio nothing came from visions 35*100 and 4 abhyas tests. Also, don't think one really needed to do 3500 questions and waste 10 days for something as trivial as barasingha and your ICR.
The only true controversial questions
1. Non financial debt. Well the definition of this is problematic af. Most webpages have this written as "issuer" of debt, in which case 3 only. Reading it in context of ibc its 3 only.
2. Minister ->6 months (this to me should be D, but UPSC has used the word "can", and there's no limiting terms like all or any, so can't rub off the notion that UPSC treats that as a general statement)
3. Desher katha. This will ultimately depend on what UPSC considers was deuskars context. Chances are towards 1n2 though.
Don't think rest are doubtful or anything. Rakhmabai is settled at 2n3 and preamble should be D as SC clearly stated that the objectives of preamble are a part of basic structure, and secularism has been kept as a reason for using 356 in bommai. Also, FRs do reflect objectives of the preamble. Thus while obviously the idea of liberty equality doesn't have a legal sanction associated, you can obviously generate a legal sanction wrt the FR that guarantees u the same.
Blockchain, AI aren't really controversial. We shouldn't take every question that some other institution has marked different as controversial, coz then unacadrmys jatin verma has lisa pathfinder as answer, which we should accept is wrong.
Apart from these there will be added impact of cancellation of the gandhi irwin question. That's most probably 2 marks gone for all, which means cutoff will drop by 2 marks, in all probability.
What's the consensus on Blockchain and AI then? I guess UPSC will go for a generalized reading in case of AI.
Yes. If the statement given by UPSC has been remotely in practice or "even exists as a concept that has prolly seen fruition only in labs" UPSC takes it as correct. Thus there's such a push towards D-fication of SnT answers. But this too will break some year.
@Biradar sir could u let me know abt the answers of AI,Nalsa,aadhar and cyberinsurance as shankar had given all for cyberinsurance question
Okay, I forgot this question but have doubts on cyberinsurance too. That's like 4 questions. Every year we have these 4 5 qs. Aadhar, to me shankar has it correct. As is AI. Nalsa I didn't attempt, so can't say.
@Biradar r u sure Gandhi Irwin will get cancelled??
Would be amazed if it doesn't. Would prove how much UPSC gives a fuck about the exam.As much as we have it correct, lets accept that logically either it should be cancelled, or marks given to all or marks given to those who attempted
minister question statement of possibility, there is no prohibition for a 18 year to be minister. It’s only to prohibit for becoming MP but not a minister. It’s a case of a. Just a possibility it clearly say ‘can’. It’s my take. Will see what UPSC reads it
Because of the word "can", I am considering this as -ve. I have marked D. But something in me tells me that the a person eligible to vote can be a minister for 6 months..is actually fine. Like see, a minister who has not been elected or nominated is, a citizen of india anyways and has voting rights. The problem here is , a voter can be a minister, ANY voter can't be a minister and ALL voters can't be a minister.
Yaar this, desher katha, t bill and the deletion of gandhi irwin is like 2.66*4 = 10.67 marks on stake, at the very least.
Last time coachings got btfod in digital signature and ramsar convention and parliament rules , vision included. I can imagine something similar happening this time around too.
@Biradar Desh katha is way beyond settle with 100% proof. Tum faltu load le rahe ho. The only problem i see is the question of Tbill. Baki in all and all you will not see much difference from the coaching key..
Yaar har year humlog yahi bolte. Last year digisig 3 wala crowd was silenced, similarly the ramsar crowd. Yeh upsc hai, kuch nahi pata chalta . I mean ffs jagranjosh had one over vision when it came to ramsar last year.
I think we have researched the answers a lot.Now, playing answers answers game won't be of much help in terms of mental peace to anyone.It has reached equilibrium and UPSC will be the fate decider as always.
This would be my last post and kindly request everyone here to please predict the cutoff.No range just one number.(Assuming that marks r given to deserving Hindi students in Gandhi Irwin)
My take is 96.67(General)
91, given gandhi irwin is deleted. 93 otherwise.
Raison d etre -
1. Difficult qp so on avg people have 2 questions less in kitty (very similar to 2016 to 17 transition and 2017 to 18 transition). That amounts to 2.67*2 = 5.34 marks
2. Further 1 mark fall in cutoff thanks to abysmal turnouts.
Round 0.33 mark balanced out by lesser seats
So 98-5.33-1+0.33= 92 as per upsc key
Brethren, cutoff will be at forum consensus cutoff - 4 atleast.
2017 it was 110 (Upsc cutoff 105)
Last year it was 102. (Upsc cutoff 98)
Year previous to that it was 100/101 (Upsc cutpff 97)
last 2 years almost no one on forum claimed to have less than 100 marks, yet when names appeared 80% were binned. Out of the 80%, I would say 20 25% had shitty luck, but the rest were just dishonest.
Given forum is sticking at 95, upsc will have cutoff at 91 to 93.
@Biradar But me ye khud nai bol raha. Ye desukar apni kitab me bol raha hai jo maine padhi hai 3 page..
Bhai the first 3 pages are a preface written by someone else 😂. I read 4 chapters, the problem is that, he calls desh but sticks to economic exploitation of bengal. He calls for revival of hindu jaati but then again goes into hur dur bengal revivalism needed. However I am 80% convinced it will be 1n2 only and that I have done it wrong, as I marked all. Nothing against you or anyone. But just to be on the safe side, i tell everyone the least possible marks (hence I have taken minister D wrong too). It helps coz if I don't make it, I am prepared for it already.
@Biradar The pdf which I read was not the one which had a reference. It was the original text of Desukar. In google there are two pdf .. I did came across the other one too ( which you read in most probability) .Plus ishita dube also clearly explains us the context.One of my bengali friends also told me that this book is in syllabus for bengali medium students in state boards and the context is all India.
http://dspace.wbpublibnet.gov.in:8080/jspui/handle/10689/1231
Am talking bout this bro
Lol, in this only. The first chapter is the preface and it is not by deuskar. In any case, if you are ews, and at 90+ without this I don't think you should be concerned at all. Ishita dube keeps it at 1n2 and prolly that's the answer
Every coaching key has mistakes and it is clear as daylight. Shankar has done rakhmabhai wrong. Vision has done preamble wrong. Half of them have done the desher katha thing wrong, considering its 1n2 T bills wala most have written ISSUER OF DEBT and then said 123, self contradictory. Minister wala insights and forum (prolly) and study to have given A. In fact bar vision and insights(?) almost everyone did rakhmabai wrong.
At the very least that's capable of swinging you from ifos zone to normal cse zone and from normal cse zone to outsider.
So much for muh easy paper, half of which had nabardesque questions.
One thing is to have Google at home and checking 3 4 sources. Another thing is hearing about deuskar 1st time in the exam hall and guessing the correct answer.
With reference to theinternational trade of Indiaat present, which of thefollowing statements is/arecorrect?1. India's merchandiseexports are less than itsmerchandise imports.2. India's imports of iron andsteel, chemicals, fertilisersand machinery havedecreased in recent years.3. India's exports of servicesare more than its imports ofservices.4. India suffers from anoverall trade/currentaccount deficit.Select the correct answerusing the code given below:(a) 1 and 2 only(b) 2 and 4 only(c) 3 only(d) 1, 3 and 4 onlyAin't the 4th statement wrong in present context as we have current account surplus since june.
Yaar drop a representation on this q and forget bout this. Seems the consensus is that present = annual so hey, unless UPSC was pulling a dirty trick it should be 1 3 4.
@jagteshwar_sohal25614 not mandatory but u must qualify those merits which required to be a member of the house.....if ur age is 24 years nd 7mnth court can't barred u frm becoming the minister but if u r jst 18 thn cant be a minister because SC in his order said that "The Constitution of India, the Representation of the People Act and the rules made thereunder had been enacted to protect the purity of the election. Article 173 of the Constitution of India underlines a salutary object. It postulates that a person shall not be qualified to be chosen to fill a seat in the Legislature of a State unless he is not less than twenty-five years of age in the case of a seat in the Legislative Assembly. A person although may become entitled to vote on attaining majority, the makers of the Constitution deliberately inserted clause (b) in Article 173 so as to enable the voters to elect a person who has attained maturity and experience in life. Only a matured and experienced person can represent the people and take steps which would be beneficial to the electorates."This is SC ruling if u r above the SC thn A ans is right...
Bhai bhai the problem is not all this. Kyu magajmari kar rahe ho.
The point is
Read option a like this
Can a person eligible to vote become a minister without being a member? Yes.
Can all/any person eligible to vote become a minister without being a member? No.
The point you are saying is limited to specific subset, ie of 18 to 25 years, which was my thought process too, when I marked D. But my doubt on my self reasoning came, as I turned those questions to interrogative. The statement is too generalist, and previously we have seen UPSC give positive answers to such statements. However, I would obviously prefer 2.67 marks so..
Don't go into deep technicalities. Waise UPSC made harappan horse a non existent entity back in 2017 😂
101.4 from Vajiram Key.
Preparing with job. But now I will take leave from next week.
Can someone tell me good online classes for Sociology optional?
Please reduce 5 marks coz desher katha and rakhmabai or preamble are wrong there already. Unless you left the question or had a different answer to it.
leave all ur issues and watch ths IAS Nadini Maharaj2018.Ill mood swing frm ths 2 civils in Indian ethos evoke deep public service commitment??It is not gud to blame anybody what he used to do and live.
Believe in goodness of people and ... most of people changes for good.
On the contrary, I know so many officers .. who are icons in their life before selection and just after selection too .... Peach for all aspirants... But , Now .. I just hate those people just because they are hypocrite or may be system had changed them for bad. I do not name anybody but you can guess those people.
Always remember , Balmiki was a bandit and Murderer .. but wrote Ramayana.
Ravana was a man of high intellect but a fallen person in his life.
Nothing is permanent. Even you do not know .. what you claim to be today as a person... will stay remains the same after going in to the service.
But whatever, Always strive to bring good and virtuous changes... ! Change is only constant vo to hoga hi ... what matters is ... DIRECTION of change.
Plz change DM hathras for good.🤣
I asked around 50 people on forum for their cutoff prediction.
Results were
>98 4 percent
96-98 45 percent
94-96 45 percent
<94 6 percent
There has been a lot of discussion on answers and now discussion on cutoff should also end .All the best for mains to everyone clearing prelims.
You should ask them if that includes the gandhi irwin thing. Am getting a feeling that it will be deleted
I asked around 50 people on forum for their cutoff prediction.
Results were
>98 4 percent
96-98 45 percent
94-96 45 percent
<94 6 percent
There has been a lot of discussion on answers and now discussion on cutoff should also end .All the best for mains to everyone clearing prelims.
You should ask them if that includes the gandhi irwin thing. Am getting a feeling that it will be deleted
Even if it will be deleted or retained .. does not make much difference .
Obviously it won't. But on deletion the cutoff will be 2 or more marks less. Why so? Coz this is a question that most have done correctly. It was prolly "the easiest" or one of the easiest 5 questions in the paper. So you get my point? If there were 25 easy questions, now it becomes 24, with one of the easiest gone.
@Biradar I asked them.These include Gandhi Irwin Q.They may do something like giving both 1 or 1,2,4 for Hindi students.Wont delete the question.Would be unjust to all other languages.
I doubt this thing. I don't think they will be giving marks "just" to hindi folk or anything. That's because a lot of people generally read both hindi and English translations of qs before answering.
Correct.. 2019 key me 9 Different hai sankar ke UPSC official key se.
And .. Nobody is reputed ... because .. all are more or less same. Good for static but .. No institute cam figure out or teach dynamic syllabus properly. .. and so is the answer key.
Aur .. aaj kal I doubt static knowledge of institutes too.
Sankar made a mark by Environment material though. That book is really great. But , I would say ...There is no permanency in reputation. Teachers change, MANAGEMENT changes.. institute culture changes and so be the reputation changes and falls many a times.
Agreed ....there was a time ( when gs 1 of prelims was less important and people used to qualify pre with csat) when static portion was given a lot of importance because to write good answers you are required to be rock solid with static knowledge.Then ,came 2016 prelims paper .A complete current affairs oriented paper .From there on coachings made a paradigm shift in their approach .Every Tom ,Dick ,Harry scheme of government has become a topic of detailed discussion. Craze of current affairs has reached to a level that in the last couple of months of preparation (before the exam )students read only current affairs and government schemes .Basic books like NCERT ,spectrum and Lakshmikant are not even touched .Coachings having realised this demand and are busy pumping in more and more current affairs.Meanwhile ,focus on developing good static content and updating it with time is ignored .
And .. I am really sick of .. Lot of institutes who proliferated under the disguise of teachIng Current Affairs .. become a ful fledged IAS academy... teaching everything up to interview .. and with questionable intents.
For ex :
last minute offer .. 200 schemes 500 Rs.
International org. all in 3 hours 1100 Rs
etc etc.
Barbaad to inhone kara hai baccho ko. Its like a chaat shop now .. You can pick and choose ingredients as per will. and so on so forth.
But, This year paper(even hint was there from 2017) ki .. ye Nahi chalega... Properly pad ke aao to hi ache marks aayenge.
Anyway... Free country.
The blame should be equally shouldered by irresponsible megalomaniacs who once they see themselves in the list will take money from such institutes to sell "hacks" in the name of crash course and be inspiring junta to do more mocks religiously in their pep talks.
If the only selling pitch the coachings have is to show those 20 25 questions (that anyone could have done reading laxmikanth, and even after that giving wrong answers, as in preamble and minister one) then they should hang their heads in shame.
The ROI of doing mocks is tbh pretty poor. Rather do PYQ to get feel of such things like marking D in snt.
Same goes for mains. You are the content differential. Everyone will write mains 365. But go the extra mile and get better content. It does get rewarded. Not so much in gs, but in essays and optional, its the game changer.
Lastly. And very importantly. The whole fear regarding prelims is much less for IFOS bunch. I mean a guy preparing for ifos almost always has a 8 10 mark edge over a civilguy. Upsc since 2017 has very very sincerely made a paper where at least some questions will give ifos people privilege. Things just took a nasty bend this year. The fact that a civil guy has to know nasty little known facts about forests, and ecology, which aren't even gonna be anywhere in his domain, is pretty much laughable.
Also, if you think next year se hum agri ka booklet padhke jaenge, wait before UPSC makes some SEBI/RBIesque paper 😂🤣
@Adi_das The only disputed questions imo are TBill, Preamble and AI.. rest everyone is making a meal out of it. Theres an outside chance ki 1-2 other answers can Surprise you but thats it.Idhar people were desperate to prove even desukar wrong 😂😂. Then science and tech ka to baat hi kya.i myself have the second best answer to nalsa (d) judicial review (d) aadhar ( c) but they are wrong...so if you are 93+ after leaving the 3 questions which I mentioned previously, theres a 90% probability you are writing mains.. 100% koi nai bol sakta
Preamble is not even in doubt. Only those who have marked A are hopelessly trying to make it controversial
For that eligible to vote can be made a minister question, SC has given guidelines long back (2001) in Jayalalitha case. Pasting from an article in The Hindu
As a general rule, a person can become a Minister only if he is a member of the Legislative Assembly or the Legislative Council. Article 164(4) states that a person cannot continue as Minister for more than six months if he is not a member of the legislature by that period.
Again the OPTIONS NEVER SAID ALL OR ANY VOTER CAN BE A MINISTER.
CAN A PERSON ELIGIBLE TO VOTE BE A MINISTER FOR 6 MONTHS? YES.
THERE ARE NO LIMITING TERMS LIKE ALL OR ANY USED IN THE STATEMENT SO ALL THIS DISSECTION IS USELESS.
THIS UNREQUIRED ASSUMPTIONS OF THE PERSON HAVING CRIMINAL RECORD OR BEING LESS THAN 25 YEARS ARE USELESS, THE OPTIONS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SUCH ASSUMPTIONS
@Biradar is Preamble answer d or a?
D
Okay, Biradar leave all assumptions, let's only see what is written clearly in the question.
The statement says, "According to Constitution", so tell me which article or schedule of the Constitution says so?
The only related article is 164(4), which is as below
A Minister who for any period of six consecutive months is not a member of the Legislature of the State shall at the expiration of that period cease to be a Minister.
So from this how do we conclude that a person who is eligible to vote can be made a minister?
Read the article again
A minister who is not a member shall be reqd to become a member by 6 MONTHS.
Mandatory qualification for every minister is to be a voter in the first place, vide qualification en listed under art 174.
Thus, a voter is eligible to be a minister. Any voter however is not eligible.
See i did both this and the CAD one wrong due to over thinking. I did D here and 3 only there coz readtoo much into the word presently . So don't be like me. Don't over read the question. This isn't vision abhyas that they are playing 5D chess everywhere.
Thanks
Everybody agree with your inference. However u r not understanding the rationale behind the debate around this question. What u r saying is absolutely correct. Problem arises due to the use of word "a person" in English and any person in hindi version. As per English version answer should be A. As per hindi version D.
Lol what did they write in hindi. Lol max. This is new info for me. UPSC literally should tell hindi people ki bhai apun ko ghanta fark parta. How can they make mistake in 2 3 questions in one simple prelims exam.
Her record in prelims polity questions is worse than noobs appearing the exam
@Biradar bro this minister ques does not demand overthinking.. 25 years old is basic qualification. And that CAD ques i agree that the word presently leads to confusion. Again i think merchandise exports is not more than merchandise imports..
Lol max UPSC asks you to mark the most appropriate option in which case the trade deficit and CAD option becomes incorrect, in which case 134 is not possible.
Regarding minister
See man, you are just proper bullshitting at this point. The question has nothing to do with qualification first up. If a statement reads A HUMAN BEING CAN CONSUME MILK, ITS CORRECT. YOU DONT START READING LACTOSE INTOLERANCE INTO IT, UNLESS IT STATES ALL OR ANY HUMAN BEING CONSUMES MILK.
At this point you know very well what I am saying. If you still can't understand my point, thank you, you aren't clearing CSAT anyways.
And for your thoughtful assumption of me marking it as A, jokes on you I marked D.
It's gonna be just like the legislature rules of last year. Mark my words
@Biradar dont lie man , you marked A thats why you are desperate to get it correct. The way you talk to.others on forum shows your frustrationAnd answer will.be D only whatever you say or do ...
Thanks for having more knowledge than me on what I marked. I have seen enough nautanki on this forum post every prelims to know what is the answer and what isn't.
Now rather shoehorn your brain-dead opinions on AI on this forum
@aadhi_rocz623 desperate people making even genuine straightforward questions doubtful.
Desperate people scoring 105 lurking on question answer discussions even a week after prelims. Hmmmmmm
Everybody agree with your inference. However u r not understanding the rationale behind the debate around this question. What u r saying is absolutely correct. Problem arises due to the use of word "a person" in English and any person in hindi version. As per English version answer should be A. As per hindi version D.
Lol what did they write in hindi. Lol max. This is new info for me. UPSC literally should tell hindi people ki bhai apun ko ghanta fark parta. How can they make mistake in 2 3 questions in one simple prelims exam.
U can check urself. In hindi it's "koi bhi vyakti" meaning any person. Off course it's a poor translation.
Then it prolly will be D
@Biradar answer of desher katha as per your opinion??
It's prolly 1n2
I hope you are right with this. In exam hall I remembered the point given in laxmikant where its written ‘’ Further, where the terms used in any article are ambiguous or capable of more than one meaning, some assistance at interpretation may be taken from the objectives enshrined in the Preamble. ‘’
Baaki I dont have deeper understanding of justiciable vs legal affect etc.. so i dont know. If its D its plus 2.67
Kesavanamda Bharati clearly stated objectives laid down in preamble are to be persued by the constitution, and remember secularism is a legit cause to do 356 as per bommai. So it doesn't have any legal effect independently. But equality is perused by art 14 15 16 17 and you can take to courts for infringement of the same.
If you have marked D not even a cause to think otherwise
@Biradar finger crossed :D what about rukmabai, nalsa question?
Rukmabhai is 2n3 . Nalsa didn't attempt.
@chikuiasbano desher katha is 1&2, Rukhmabai is 2&3. Unless upsc decides to change history..
Harappan horse rolls in its grave
@Biradar who said m scoring 105,anyways you dont care about my mains too much, i know how to manage my time .you care about your issues..
I have every reason to call out a fear mongering mentally ill and cognitively impaired individual. Fcuk off with your 100+ cutoffs mate.
@Biradar Harrapan Horse is a debated issue. Thats why there was confusion over the same. However upsc picked the exact verbatim from a du book.However Desher Katha and Rukhmabai are not historical debates.. Open any standard text book and search for age of consent you will probably get the word ‘ debate’ suffixed with it.Desher katha me the man desukar himself has written about bharat bhoomi its geography, demography (22cr population) , Economic exploitation.Rukhmabai is picked from Dube again and she clearly writes about age of consent and conjugal rights . Then sekhar bandopadhya mentions same too. These two are very big names in history.
Harappan horse isn't really debated, Upinder Singh too agrees on it. Regarding other 2 obviously you have a point
Cut off will be 92(+-2). Said this on day 1. Continuing the same till date.
Every time a tough paper has happened marks have collapsed by 6 7 marks minimum. And this is not even taking covid into account.
Absurd for people to forget 2016 ->2017 transition and 2017->18 transition.
Its not gonna be 95. Last time consensus was at 101, it fell to 98, that too with ews, which means in a normal case the cutoff might have been down to 96 or 97.
So anyone above 90 has a decent chance. A lot of 100s have taken rakhmabai and desher katha as 123, a lot of 100s have preamble as A and have taken gandhi irwin marks (which logically will be dropped 99.99%)
i would rather say a 92 93 guy who hasn't included such cheap marks has a better probability to convert than a 100+ guy with such dirty marks.
And well, last time I know people who were having scores in 90s, and had given up who made it to final list. So yeah, stop seeking validity. If are 90+ just study and inshallah!
For so great exam people had, forum this season has garnered prolly the least traction in the last 5 years. Those who have been in forum since they started taking baby steps for upsc would know. Also for the first time I am seeing people so concerned about paper 2 , literally on every page we are seeing paper 2 discussion
*High quality bakar ek khwab hai*
For so great exam people had, forum this season has garnered prolly the least traction in the last 5 years. Those who have been in forum since they started taking baby steps for upsc would know. Also for the first time I am seeing people so concerned about paper 2 , literally on every page we are seeing paper 2 discussion
*High quality bakar ek khwab hai*
Maybe sabka gs paper 1 achcha gaya ho... In insights poll it is showing 2k people getting 110+
Good luck believing those polls.
If you were here, you would have known how jostling the forum used to be in 2016 2017 when 110 scores were commonplace. In 2018 19 too when 100s were common forum used to be far far more active.
For so great exam people had, forum this season has garnered prolly the least traction in the last 5 years. Those who have been in forum since they started taking baby steps for upsc would know. Also for the first time I am seeing people so concerned about paper 2 , literally on every page we are seeing paper 2 discussion
*High quality bakar ek khwab hai*
Maybe sabka gs paper 1 achcha gaya ho... In insights poll it is showing 2k people getting 110+
Good luck believing those polls.
If you were here, you would have known how jostling the forum used to be in 2016 2017 when 110 scores were commonplace. In 2018 19 too when 100s were common forum used to be far far more active.
So why are people discussing less then....dauration for mains is less maybe the reason
Both that, and the 100 102 wala guy doesn't want to rethink answers like desher katha or rakhmabai or even the fault in gandhi irwin. His 100 102 becomes 92 94.
For so great exam people had, forum this season has garnered prolly the least traction in the last 5 years. Those who have been in forum since they started taking baby steps for upsc would know. Also for the first time I am seeing people so concerned about paper 2 , literally on every page we are seeing paper 2 discussion
*High quality bakar ek khwab hai*
Maybe sabka gs paper 1 achcha gaya ho... In insights poll it is showing 2k people getting 110+
Good luck believing those polls.
If you were here, you would have known how jostling the forum used to be in 2016 2017 when 110 scores were commonplace. In 2018 19 too when 100s were common forum used to be far far more active.
So why are people discussing less then....dauration for mains is less maybe the reason
Both that, and the 100 102 wala guy doesn't want to rethink answers like desher katha or rakhmabai or even the fault in gandhi irwin. His 100 102 becomes 92 94.
What u marked in chronology question in history regarding pallava, chola, pala, pratihara. I think coachings are getting it wrong.
No no its correct.
Hello guys need your help.
I am getting 102 as per shankar key considering AI as wrong, didn't attempt rakhmabai and desarkatha.
I have 90+ in csat.
I am getting the same marks when apply vajiram, vision and toppers key.
If the chronolgy answer is wrong as per the above debate, I will get 99.5. I belong to OC.
What are my chances of clearing?
0. Prepare for 2021. Atb. 🙂😎
Gandhi Irwin drop nhi hoga...
It will be dropped or marks given to all. In any case its the same. Don't expect anyone in UPSC to defend non cooperation movement = civil disobedience
https://mobile.twitter.com/AwanishSharan/status/1312740970270654467
Lol even civil servants are making fun of this translation now 😂
@appyfizz Us din bhi kisi ne post kiya tha na ye..around 5 days back
Arey its the same telegram screenie getting circulated
Some people really need to get some nuance while reading the preamble question
Both A and D options are same. However D option is an extension of A.
A just says that preamble has no legal implication
D says it has no implication independent of others
Obviously the whole basic structure is based on the ideals of the preamble.
Obviously the various legal and fundamental rights and provisos give fruition to the objectives forwarded in the preamble
Secularism , that is expressly provided for only in the preamble has been used by bommai case.
Obviously preamble has no legal implication.
But read it with the constitution it forwards only those ideals that preamble provides for.
The option A would have been correct had there been no option D. That's the case with that tourist officer question. Not with UPSC
u might have calculated frm their earlier key . It had several mistakes . Later they had revised many answers except digital signature , ramsar etc .. This yr its going to be AI for sure .
Seeing my last year prelims marks, it's 14 marks more than Shankar keys.Nahi bhai AI change nahi hoga
https://devmesh.intel.com/projects/smarter-wireless-power-transfer-technology
AI assisted WPT is already a thing, when it comes to NFC and antennas. So don't think AI assisted wireless transmission of electrical energy will be wrong.
AI zabardasti ka galat hai.
Also on AI 2nd option,
So yes. It has already been writing meaningful texts, albeit being sexist and racist.
@Biradar I wish u would have scrolled down more in that article,it says it lacks common sense.Regarding GPT 3"Despite all the developments, OpenAI’s GPT-3 is still in the experimental phase.According to Ayush Sharma, an AI professional, GPT-3 can be impressive; they are not even close to Artificial General Intelligence (AGI). This is because of the fact that it has no semantic understanding, no causal reasoning, and poor generalisation beyond the training set.According to a research paper, there is substantial research that language models like GPT-3 and hype around such models should not mislead people into thinking the language models are capable of understanding or meaning."https://analyticsindiamag.com/gpt-3-is-great-but-not-without-shortcomings/Ur Wireless Power transmission articles states"It is still unknown when LG and Hitachi intend to introduce the new Charge AI charging system".AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE,ITS NOT JUST ABOUT WHAT AI CAN DO IN FUTURE OR HAS A DECENT POSSIBILITY IN NEAR FUTURE,ITS ABOUT WHAT IT CAN DO "PRESENTLY N EFFECTIVELY ".Let us leave it to Upsc.
I think you are forgetting that the wireless AI charging thing is already up for patenting. But yeah not commercially intriduced.
Regarding GPT3, there are already evidences of meaningful stories written by it. The criticism is much more about the semantics and the fact that AI written stories tend to be gory and violent and often disturbing. Thus, you are reading too much into a not so legit criticism.
@Biradar I wish u would have scrolled down more in that article,it says it lacks common sense.Regarding GPT 3"Despite all the developments, OpenAI’s GPT-3 is still in the experimental phase.According to Ayush Sharma, an AI professional, GPT-3 can be impressive; they are not even close to Artificial General Intelligence (AGI). This is because of the fact that it has no semantic understanding, no causal reasoning, and poor generalisation beyond the training set.According to a research paper, there is substantial research that language models like GPT-3 and hype around such models should not mislead people into thinking the language models are capable of understanding or meaning."https://analyticsindiamag.com/gpt-3-is-great-but-not-without-shortcomings/Ur Wireless Power transmission articles states"It is still unknown when LG and Hitachi intend to introduce the new Charge AI charging system".AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE,ITS NOT JUST ABOUT WHAT AI CAN DO IN FUTURE OR HAS A DECENT POSSIBILITY IN NEAR FUTURE,ITS ABOUT WHAT IT CAN DO "PRESENTLY N EFFECTIVELY ".Let us leave it to Upsc.
Yes presently and effectively it can generate articles. You have AI written well meaning texts and just random googling is enough for it. Expecting UPSC to go too deep into any question is baal ka khaal khichna.
Also regarding AI powered wireless energy transmission, you already have it in microwave engineering where you use AI for optimising the energy generation from variable electromagnetic field using maxwell equations. NFC and FFC already use AI, so again hoping AI to change is more like A for preamble
@Biradar Please give link of that random googling .Anyways Let upsc decide n not waste time
https://www.literai.com
@Biradar https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/2020/08/22/1007539/gpt3-openai-language-generator-artificial-intelligence-ai-opinion/amp/
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/30062/short-stories-written-by-an-artificial-intelligence
Also this
https://play.aidungeon.io
Read these
2015 prelims
. In which of the following activities are Indian Remote Sensing (IRS) satellites used?
1. Assessment of crop productivity
2. Locating groundwater resources
3. Mineral exploration
4. Telecommunications
5. Traffic studiesSelect the correct answer using the code given below.
(a) 1, 2 and 3 only
(b) 4 and 5 only
(c) 1 and 2 only
(d) 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5similar option formulation to AI
if one goes with 123 and 5 as applications of remote sensing...then i wl have to mark 12345..but telecommunication is done by communication satellites we know that..
hence most apt is 123 only ignoring 5th option .hence one doesnt know
just Posted here as someone was arguing 1234 is right and hence 5th option must be right for AI.
5th option is already in existence. I attached proofs fyi
https://devmesh.intel.com/projects/smarter-wireless-power-transfer-technology
What? New Zealand already has wireless power transmission.
https://mercomindia.com/this-wireless-new-zealand-transmission-system/
We already have FFC and NFC communicatiin. We already have wireless charging for EVs. General Maxwell equation has been in use in microwave transmission since inception, that's what forms the bulwark of wireless electricity generation and transmission
Obviously let's focus on mains but forumwasi are too misguided on Wpt
For AI can't effectively do songs 😂🤣
https://artsandculture.google.com/theme/12-songs-created-by-ai-barbican-centre/FwJibAD7QslgLA?hl=en
Yet some people will keep pushing "no effectively meaningful songs reeeeee"
For AI can't effectively do songs 😂🤣
https://artsandculture.google.com/theme/12-songs-created-by-ai-barbican-centre/FwJibAD7QslgLA?hl=en
Yet some people will keep pushing "no effectively meaningful songs reeeeee"
What if those are UPSC people deciding keys?? Your ans are all wrong..
Bhai tu apna CSAT Dekh le. Have had enough of bumbling zombies
@Biradar Hadd hai bhai... It clearly mention in the prelude that it is in nascent stage yet people are hell bent on turning it in their favor. Read this if you still are unpersuadedhttps://www.nylon.com/entertainment/artificial-intelligence-in-music-holly-herndon-jukebox/amp
Its useless. Coz now people are starting to go into deep semantics.
Jahaki reality toh yehi hai ki 90% just laughed off at wireless power transmission and marked it wrong. 😂😂
My last post here in forum..dnt want to argue in any questions further1. your own GPT 3 example2. So called meaningful songsBest wishes to all
Without deep learning, the problems of AI persist. Anyways.
For AI can't effectively do songs 😂🤣
https://artsandculture.google.com/theme/12-songs-created-by-ai-barbican-centre/FwJibAD7QslgLA?hl=en
Yet some people will keep pushing "no effectively meaningful songs reeeeee"
What if those are UPSC people deciding keys?? Your ans are all wrong..
Bhai tu apna CSAT Dekh le. Have had enough of bumbling zombies
Pass ho ja pahle prelims fir boliyo bhai..Aram se agle saal ans dekh ke ..UPSC ko gali dene se kuch na hoga..chill kar.
Tere se zyada mains likh chuka hu. Chal ab nikal.
Right answers.
Preamble A only
State minister A only
AI - no song,story and electricity transfer
Non financial- T bill option only
Money from demand deposit - A only
Banian- He is not agent of East India Company.
Puch nahin raha hun.. Bata raha hun..Baki apna apna dekho..mains perepare karo..jhagda na karo..
And this sample thinks this will be UPSC key. Don't make a clown of yourself.
My heart goes out to this guy
If am not wrong I know her and she was in reserve list in 2018, also topped her state pcs. The blurred name seemingly has those initials.
My heart goes out to this guy
If am not wrong I know her and she was in reserve list in 2018, also topped her state pcs. The blurred name seemingly has those initials.
Bro those 156 marks in paper 1 that too in 2019 shows something.
If am not wrong even she did struggle with prelims 2 3 times, and not in paper 2. It's so so random these days. Obviously she got rewarded heavily in her state pcs .. topping any exam is no mean feat, what say?
Also you see 750 (jisme kul 550 600 tak hi kaam ke posts milte) logo ko hi milenge chahe 7500 ya 75000 log hard work kyu na ki ho. So I don't buy this do smart work and hard work and u will be in stories. Kismat na chamke toh katne ka probability almost 1 hai, and it hardly matters ki pre mein aapka kaat raha ya interview mein.
Kuch chaman logo ko lagta hai ki you get luck only where you deserve. Now go and preach that to the new zealand cricket team jo last 2 world cup mein khudka final mein katwa raha.
Baat toh yeh hain ki yeh langotiheads khud coaching ka sab answer galat jayega sochkr apna key banate hai. Par gyaan bohot umdaa pelte hai
My heart goes out to this guy
If am not wrong I know her and she was in reserve list in 2018, also topped her state pcs. The blurred name seemingly has those initials.
Bro those 156 marks in paper 1 that too in 2019 shows something.
If am not wrong even she did struggle with prelims 2 3 times, and not in paper 2. It's so so random these days. Obviously she got rewarded heavily in her state pcs .. topping any exam is no mean feat, what say?
Also you see 750 (jisme kul 550 600 tak hi kaam ke posts milte) logo ko hi milenge chahe 7500 ya 75000 log hard work kyu na ki ho. So I don't buy this do smart work and hard work and u will be in stories. Kismat na chamke toh katne ka probability almost 1 hai, and it hardly matters ki pre mein aapka kaat raha ya interview mein.
Bilkul sahi baat bhai, isi liye I don't ignore state PCS exams either, because hard work to hai hi but luck kaha kaam aa jaye kuch pata nahi, I too gave UPPCS mains this yr, bc kahi bhi kismat saath de bas de jaldi.
Scene wohi hai. Dekhoge toh har baar top 20 mein aapko 4 5 aise bande bandi milenge jo ek question galat hota toh prelims mein hi game over ho jata unka. If you increase the range to cutoff +5.33 (2.66*2) fir toh shayad 8 10 aise log honge . That's what is luck. Essay mein aapko jo topic accha ata hain uspe essay aa jana. That's luck. All these small things actually count. Interview mein board accha hona. But unfortunate reality yeni hain ki society treats all this as binary. Either aap sarvagyani ho in case you make the list, or you are a loser.
Last 2 time se jo bande ko 280 mila psir mein is saal unko 211 aye aur 10 marks se mains ka cutoff rahe gaya. Kya bologe?
Waise strategy aapka sahi hain. Abhi itna random ban chuka exam ki ispe akela bharosa rakhna isn't good. It's better to keep your eggs distributed chahe wo mba ho ya masters ho ya state pcs ho ya kuch bhi
Guys most of the questions are settled
1. AI ->Not D (setteled on the forum discussion)
2. Desher Katha ->A (on forum people have read the book itself), only vajiram gave answer D.
3. Rakhmabai ->Not D (Only mrunal gave it D)
4. Preamble ->D (Only shubhra called for A)
5. Treasury Bill ->D (Only shriram ias ,called for 3 only, mrunal has some doubt, but he is with D)
6.Block Chain ->D (settled on this forum)
7.Minister ->D (only insight and dristi called for A)
I am telling this with an unbias mindset, as i have marked D for AI, A for Deheser, D for Rakhma bai, A for preamble, 3 only for treasury bill, A for Blockchain, D for minister.
Getting 98.66- 104 from different keys UR
AI no coaching has gone with 134 , and it's just people trying to push the semantics argument so it won't change.
Minister is 50 50 depending on interpretation
Gandhi Irwin will get dropped.
Rest i agree with you.
Nfd is 123 , it's taken from an IE article as Percival had pointed out
