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[Open Conversation] What is the final solution?

People have lost lives.

ORN and KB are beyond the carrying capacity.

Municipal Infrastructure needs a rethink and requires large public funds.

Classes and Libraries happen in basement because they are noise insulated and cheaper than regular floors. After the fire incident in Shubham Palace,  upper floors were considered off limits for classes as fire moves upwards.

What is the final solution to all this ?



What is the 

DM,slightedge109and5 otherslike this
38.5k views

83 comments

But@Neyawn sir,

I hv 1 question.

Why you didn't goto protest site to support the students?

What is the reason? Like jhojha sir you are afraid?

Your repeated crossing of the informal red lines of civility needs to be called out. 


Anyone can question@Neyawn (we all do) but your only purpose of coming on forum seems to be to mock and provoke him (With a popcorn in your lap). You already have been branded in the minds of most users as the “Gossip Girl” of this blog, more interested in the Gossips of UPSC industry than the substantive aspects of preparation. 


At least have some amount of respect for a mentor or a guide, who even if for his own interest has helped you or helped thousands in some or the other way. 


Also respect the sensitivity of the topic: It’s not a juicy topic for us to derive pleasure


The question you posed could have been framed in a more civil manner. What is this language : "Are you afraid like Jhojha sir"? 


I don't know how you handle such continuous provocations from him/her @Neyawn 


Gaitonde’s Den: https://forumias.com/post/detail/Gaitondes-Den-1727638216
Foucault1,Rashmirathiand13 otherslike this
4.2k views
I don't know why upsc "coaching" shy away from providing a study space within their institute? What if one arrives a bit early to their class? where is the student suppose to wait n  study ?

If Forum is thinking to relocate in a  new area. Then they should consider having a free library. Why? 
Considering the fact that new areas are a bit outside the main area, travelling will be a bit of an issue. However, if forum has a study space to offer, students can move early in the morning and study before and after the class, till eod.

Taking AWFG as a case study. When I did it back in '22, it was happening in the morning, and then had dipin sir's class. If forum had a study space, that would have opened up avenues for people to go through the copies of others, interact with them and learn from them. I legit had to go through Utkarsh's and Rashmirathi's copies during dipin sir's class. Now I have heard Awfg is in afternoon, people who are not giving mains this year and are still enrolled in AWFG can benefit a lot from study rooms within forum. If one stays there before awfg, revises the content with other peers, writes the paper and then discusses it with their friends/mentors(8am-4pm), then forum will legit be a part of their success journey. 

I do realise AWFG or SFG may not be financially profitable courses to run and thus library facility for those students  would be perceived as an economically unsound decision. But the thing is, how is forum known to people? Which courses produce result for forum ? SFG may not be financially viable, but it yields results. Toppers suggest to join SFG for prelims and MGP for mains. How many toppers have we seen that promote GSAP or Foundation course of forum? 
One might argue that toppers send(recommend) their relatives silently to foundation/gsap courses of forum and thus these cohorts are successful too. If that is the case, then more people from foundation should find their name in the list rather than people who just do SFG/MGP+CA.

 If SFG and MGP are producing results, and are a reason why people have trust in Forum, then isn't it ethically moral and economically logical to provide sufficient infrastructure to students who are availing these courses? The more successful  these  programmes will be, the more people will enroll in these programmes. And TBH sfg and mgp helps to  build  trust in other programmes of forum. I tried GSAP because MGP/SFG/AWFG didn't disappoint me. 

Offline students who enroll in year long MGP will benefit a lot from study centre available in forum. Imagine, people sitting together enriching their notes, learning from each others notes, going through toppers copy, inculcating their style for 5-6 long months. Now that's a success story where forum can start writing! (This is different form residential coaching')  

Maintaining and expanding any institute at the end boils down to having a mutual trust relationship between the service provider and the beneficiary. Providing a study space where one can study is a first step in trust building process. Next step would deal with having faculty and mentors full time to solve doubts of students in answer writing, conceptual clarity and prelims tips. I remember staying in Siitjee from 7am till 8 pm, after few months the class was my home, the  teachers and security guards were equally happy when I cleared mains. I was shocked when I visited forum's offline centre for the first time and saw that I couldn't sit inside the coaching and study there?? 

It's my personal take but I feel Neyawn promotes a solitary approach to study. And a suggestion for providing study space within his institute might raise his eyebrows, but I feel this would be one of the  first step in establishing an eco-system for forum.  The idea of coming to forum just to 'attend classes' or to 'write tests' is a transactional capitalistic idea that I'm not okay with. Always thought forum to be a space where I interact with my mentors, my friends and learn  from them. If forum is not able to do that in offline(REAL) world then, it's a failure from the management side. Had to leave Delhi, in a way because of this. Where is the community feeling in Forum centre or in any coaching centre as for that manner? 

Not that big of a deal, it happened years ago but ya  Admin scolded me because I would go and meet mentors during 15 mins of ethics break that neywan would give. Ofcourse I hope, forum has grown now. But if not, then some internal restructuring is needed. Cause if one finds a student who consults a mentor in 15 mins of a lecture break to be  'troublesome' and 'devoid of manners' then god help the morals and thinking of the institute.  

Some say this protest is short lived, some argue that it will yield meaningful results. Tbh my krantikari days are over, but I would be a fool if  I wouldn't learn anything from this protest. There are structural and societal flaws in the whole Upsc dream and coaching industry. And some of it can be addressed without the help of the government.

Students ( we ) go through loneliness a lot. Study rooms in  coaching can be a step to prevent the loneliness.  I don't see how suggesting a solitary method to preparation can be a solution to it. It might be a good suggestion to yield success in short term and short phases(1-2 months) but in long term it I don't think it's that ideal.

The idea that forum as an institute would focus on engaging with 'smart' people rather than 'average' people from rural towns pisses me off! It's an elitist idea to say the least. Well smart people come from a relatively  privileged background and to be honest, the situation in orn won't affect them that much.  Would AIR 35 of '18 or AIR'175 face the same  challenges 'equally' the protestors are facing right now?  No hate against them, they come from families that can bare the economic expenses that can cripple the 'average folks'. 

When the management says that it is keen to be focused on smart people who yield results, then brother, chances are these smart people will still stay in orn and be 'insulated' from the larger problems that haunt thousands of aspirants. Or they will move out of Delhi and prepare from home, cause they have functioning and healthy  family. Why bother changing the location of institute then? Why bother for any reforms at all? Results to aa hi rahe Haina? Yeh tokenism ki kya zarurat hai? 

If Forum is thinking of relocating or reforming because of 'new government guidelines' or because 'some changes are necessary to prevent bad reputation' and not because of an internal urge for betterment, then tbh reforms or our suggestions won't help to have a significant change in the real life scenario. People have suggested beautiful ideas in this thread. The idea of newspaper advertisement which highlights relevant provisions for landlord/sexual harassment safety is very beautiful. It helps to build image of forum other than a 'coaching company'.

I do realise that forum at the end of the day is a business and will have profits in it's mind. And I'm not advocating forum to target each and every upsc aspirant. The fact that there are people in India who struggle to write comprehensive english is state's fault. The fact that orn is a shithole is state's fault. The very necessity of emergence and blooming  of coaching institutes' for JEE/NEET/CLAT/SSC/UPSC is state's failure in providing sound education. And state isn't keen on revolutionising it anytime soon. 

Two roads open up to address this failure, either pursue commerce without ethics or pursue compassionate capitalism. If Neywan is confident that forum will anyways have 200-500 people in the list irrespective of any major structural changes in teaching and courses' pedagogy then compassionate capitalism provides a way to ensure a more safe space for the aspirants and "society". 

Inequality is increasing at an exponential scale. French Revolution Yad haina? Why do you think Jhakas and Sawadh Bhoja  are facing backlash more? If one 'sells' the dream of IAS to the point that people are selling/ renting their lands, just to pursue this dream then one should be prepared to face the consequences when the dream shatters or when 'the bubble bursts'. Coaching is a bubble. It's bound to burst soon, Forum has to decide which side it will be on. 

Also Stop with saying SFG/AWFG is a programme that doesn't give profits?? Cause as far as I can understand, people struggle with consistency,->they give less tests ->More profit for institure. /SFG has two levels that requires an entrance fees, and two time payments. All in all, it comes around  to 10-12k. Other coaching provides test series around 5-8k. Either provide us with some data that say that sfg is not economically viable or OWN the fact that SFG is moderately expensive but it yields results and consistency. You can't have chit(heads) bhi Meri and pat(tails) bhi Meri approach. 

And what's up with the attitude of 'scraping' SFG if people are complaining that it's "too costly" ? Yeh kya gaslighting and manipulative behaviour hai bhai? Put out facts, gain our trust, help us understand your economics instead of threatening to scrap SFG.  Make it easy for us to trust you.

Why Satyam Jain had a bloom last year? He pointed out one 'key essential flaw', That the coaching don't provide checked answer copies of toppers thus creating and exploiting  the trust deficit. Forum should work on reducing the trust deficit. 

 Aspirants are protesting. A collective conscious has emerged within us. I just wish people in Engineering and medical colleges grow a conscious as well. Suicides should not be normalised in these colleges.  

Overall I have an intellectually pessimistic approach. I won't be disappointed to know that  this wouldn't  lead to major reforms in coaching industry or the psyche of people. I'm a normal guy, I wanna grind, get in and help people around me to get in and if possible make their journey a bit bearable and easier than mine. 

Also Neyawn attached emails of people in residential coaching, that in a way implies that some people are studying silently without letting the other person know.  This is alienation to the core! Where is the community in this? If people are this selfish and lowkey in preparation phase then its worrisome to imagine how they'll behave once they gain power. Results aajaenge bhai, but with it bitterness will come as well. It won't be a 'we' victory.  And that's harmful for any new programme. You take pride in Intial phases of forum right? why? because you emphasise that people learnt from each other. Though I have no idea about how forum was pre covid, but I hope it was beautiful cause earlier community meet do seem very real and interactive!

I'm/ was a student of a govt. residential programme. Here people help each other out. A community feeling is there. Of course some sense of privacy and competition is there. But it's not alienating, it's not suffocating, management is in the loop and it's healthy. If people don't clear prelims, we feel sad. If some people make it in the list, it's a 'we' victory, if some of us don't make it into the list, we feel their pain. Hell, we are conscious about our celebration because we are more heartbroken that our peers couldn't make in. If forum wants to build it's residential programme, a 'we' community feeling is essential. A more emphasis on why people couldn't clear prelims can also be productive for Forum as it's in it's early phases and has not institutionalised yet. 

Results and toppers ayenge and jaenge yar, very few are relevant after 2 years. Same with bureaucrats. Masses feel sad when bureaucrats that did actual ground work are transferred! Public and social relations are essential!  Institutions stay. And Good institutions  last long.

tldr : Forum should work on making a community and an eco system that's healthy. 


Boy? Girl? You are a sword, that is all.
Neyawn,GaneshGaitondeand10 otherslike this
3k views
I don’t think institutions are not empathetic. You cannot just blame them because they are charging you some money. They are after all delivering services. The top management definitely are running the institutions with a profit motive. But from my personal interactions, the teachers & mentors were efficient, empathetic and humble unlike our college professors. 

But the professors don’t earn as much as probably the coaching people make and in India whoever makes money has to be branded a Devil. 

The real culprit is the administration. Who is the enforcer of rules ? The systematic corruption in the administration is to be blamed. They take bribes, do nothing and then just arrest a SUV driver for the death of our brothers and sisters. Ridiculous!

Who is to be blamed for the death of the bright mind who was electrocuted last week ? Who is the real culprit?

A culpable homicide case should be registered against the officers who inspected the premises, those who were responsible for enforcing rules and those who took bribes. 

Overall, I don’t see this as an ORN problem. Indian cities and urbanisation is haphazard. Unless and until we decentralise things, nothing will change. We need big ticket reforms like Social Accountability bill that allows public to launch enquiries against officials. 

If the officials were efficient, coachings will become efficient too. If there are proper rules and enforcements, even coachings will adhere to set norms and standards. But there is NO ENFORCEMENT at all. 

I don’t think coaching can do anything except maybe involve the students on a platform and become the AGONY AUNT’s like the Jeetu Bhaiya on Kota factory. They are far powerless than we can imagine. Most might think that administration is in the pockets of these big institutions. Well, I don’t think so. They are equally harassed by the incompetent and corrupt officials. 

You remember how Vision IAS was raided by IT department for an ideological comment by their teacher. 

However, the distrust between coaching and students is rising day by day. Slowly and steadily, people are looking at most institutions as part of the GREAT COACHING MAFIA. Transparency and communication is the only way this can be bridged 




Gaitonde’s Den: https://forumias.com/post/detail/Gaitondes-Den-1727638216
Neyawn,DMand8 otherslike this
4k views

@Ganesh_Gaitonde   this person have some malicious intentions. In some previous  threads he/she was continuously poking about some useless stuff, and his/her only interest was continuously provoking  people into insensible gossip(which he/she inferred through youtube or some kind of cult following of a new mentor in the market without any logical argument.


Its true this community provides  a good platform to discuss things and even allows people to  criticize its  policies and programs for better course  outcomes and a feedback mechanism withoutmoderation, but this doesn't come at the cost of disrespecting the person.


Many years back, @Neyawn was targeted personally by someone in poor taste on a prominent social media platform. Many of his students raised voices against  it, including many top rankers. Things were nasty back then, as they are now, only thing we do is not paying heed to it.

As said by some seniors and even @Neyawn quality of discussions on this platform has seen considerable decline( not decline i guess, inactive to be precise) post 2018-2019 especially after the telegram boom, but still provides a great platform to learn  from the journey of warrior veteranswho gave heart  and soul  to this process, even some threads which appear after 2–3 months  provide  valuable insights. The most important is the way it provides a great avenue to interact with a good chunk of serious people in the process.


@Neyawn  I know you have a lot of load on your shoulders, but this community will thrive only  if you remain quite an  active member, because aspirants like us come and go with our experiences, but you stay here with some old  and many new members. 





GaneshGaitonde,Foucault1and7 otherslike this
3.9k views

Finally, I am writing my views on this topic after reading about a lot of things. I am not a famous person but still this incident has affected me a lot and hence, I am voicing out the same here.

The tragedy which happened in ORN was not only unfortunate but could have been avoided if we had adopted continuous accountability measures instead of the current episodic accountability system in place. 

Let's just dig deep into the issue: 

  • The administration (public and private) waits for a disaster to happen and then takes countermeasures. The system doesn't take action till there's a social media outrage over it.
  • Till about a month ago, no one cared about UPSC aspirants and their conditions. I remember visiting ORN to meet a friend in May 2024. [I was planning to shift there. One of my friends was already there and we both had been planning to give offline mocks. This is because I come from a city where guidance related to UPSC is limited to royal entry reels, topper motivation reels etc. None of the good coaching institutes have their centres here even though it is an important and well off city of the country]. I remember the rooms in Mukherjee Nagar were partitioned by a "cardboard". The room was like a confinement chamber. The summer made the room hot, closed room made it humid and the "common" bathroom smell added to the misery. But the rent? 9.5k per month. The next room (in ORN) was demanding 18k per month as room rent. I had convinced myself thinking that "Part of the journey hai, sab toh kar hi rahe hai" but unfortunately that's what every serious aspirant who comes to the UPSC hub thinks. They think this is the system here so we have two alternatives- either protest about the inhumane condition OR study. If aspirants had protested to prevent such an incident, the administration would have ignored it saying, Kuch hua kya abhi tak burra?. This is the attitude which needs to change in India irrespective of the political parties in power. We wait for the burra to happen. Those who dissentcriticize and point out the flaws in the system are called variety of names and are eventually silenced. When disaster strikes, these people lament about the fact that they told the administration beforehand. 
  • Recently, the govt came out with a bill to regulate coaching institutes now. But question is: The coaching industry has thrived ever since the exam started. We are bringing a bill now? After more than "75" years of independence? After the death of 5 aspirants? 
  • Take the Puja Khedkar controversy. Clearly, the girl is from a rich family background and most of the candidates who qualify do have a good background. The sad reality is: these people can afford to play with the system. For all we know, she will hire a top lawyer and keep the case in limbo. The way our judicial system is, we know what will happen. That's why when a person who is an autorickshaw driver's son/daughter or any child of a socially disadvantaged group makes it to the list, their tale is romanticized and "news" is created. We overlook the fact that they are outliers! Infact everyone who gets into the list is an outlier! We can't take their example and set out to prepare. 
  • Neither UPSC cares nor you would care why a person failed. In the end, it just matters whether you are in the list or out of the list. People will come to listen only to the victorious ones and not the ones who failed (obviously because of the number). Infact, people romanticize the 1st attempt mai clear karna stuff so much that it is annoying. I remember a faculty saying you are not a serious aspirant if you have taken 2 or more attempts. But the reality is that there are serious aspirants often end up reading "all" the recommended books so that their selection is guaranteed. To ensure this guarantee, a prominent faculty often brings out 2000 pages of Economy notes every year and claims that if you don't read those, you won't clear Prelims. The thought of not clearing Prelims and becoming an IAS in the first attempt invokes fear and anxiety in the minds of the aspirants. That's where some 'dubious' coaching institutes come in the picture and claim "Guaranteed Prelims and Guaranteed Mains" programmes. Hence, aspirants end up joining them. 
  • Next- privilege, a person from a good background irrespective of their reservation category might end up scoring better than the one who is not from such a background. People from far off areas come to ORN and Mukherjee Nagar thinking that they will crack UPSC and serve their country. But now the sad reality is: the underprivileged kid is overexploited in the city whereas privileged kids are provided all types of facilities when they sit for the exam.
  • Personal story: [When I used to live in Dhanbad, I had to travel 4 hrs to my Mains centre in Ranchi. And guess what, there was only one centre for all of Jharkhand. So people from far off areas had to take hotel rooms in Ranchi for a period of almost one week. It costed me around 12k to survive there just to give Mains exam. I consider myself privileged enough that I could afford that amount. But when I got there, the hotel room was in a basement with no ventilation with snails creeping out of the toilet (So yes, not only coaching institutes but hotels are also opened up in basements). Fortunately enough, I met a college friend in the exam hall itself and we took a room together. But all of this chaos was during Mains! Now everyone saw just the end result and not the story behind it. My point is we have to take into account the privileges one had while they prepared for an exam. If you can't control the privileges part then focus on insulating your prep from such psychological turmoil. I couldn't do it in that attempt and hence, I couldn't clear (In addition, to other factors like strategy)]. 
  • Again, no offence to anyone who has a good background but let's just acknowledge our privileges and paint a true picture of things instead of romanticizing stuff.  
  • Recently, a girl had committed suicide in ORN (I can't recall her name) when her "landlord" asked her to leave. In her suicide letter, she also writes about planning to become IAS in the "1st attempt". She was from a humble background (Not affluent). People, who come from Tier 2 or Tier 3 cities where guidance is close to zero, learn from online sources. That's where YouTube comes in the picture and role of teachers like Vikas Divyakirti and Awadh Ojha assumes importance. These people have painted a rosy picture and this picture became these people's dreams. When the reality strikes, this dream breaks. When it breaks, there's anger. I am sure some clips might have been quoted out of context but it is what it is. 
  • Next, will UPSC and DoPT accept their mistakes? What about the allegations of fake OBC and PwD certificates? Everyone clearly knows why the notification said only Puja was such an exception and everything else is fine - it will open the Pandora's box. The administration knows that protest and outrage won't last for long no matter how emotional the incident is. 

Coming to the education part: 

  • Oh the rot runs so deep here! Coaching institutes are present because the formal educational system is highly inadequate to address the demands of education. 
  • We reduce syllabus in the name of reducing pressure on the student. But did the syllabus of competitive exams change? Did the syllabus of UPSC become less hard? or Did life become less hard? NO. So who will fulfill that gap? Coaching institutes. 
  • But yes, some coaching institutes are good and do really help the aspirants. But why are they not part of the formal educational industry? Why do most students sit at the last bench in their college but fight for the first bench in a coaching institute? Why are we paying lakhs of money in addition to our college degrees?

What needs to be done? The solution?

  • Broadly, accept mistakes! Look beyond money! (Why did the recent landslide happen when Kasturirangan and Gadgil Committee recommendations had clearly pointed out environmental issues in their respective reports? Groups protested against the Committee being "too environment friendly"! Govt overlooked it. What happened? Tragedy. Now tell me who are we going to blame?).
  • Practice what you preach(Ethics).
  • Learn to take responsibility! I loved how Shri Swati Maliwal, MP in Rajya Sabha, framed it, "When a road is built, all local politicians would fight about the fact that the road should be named after them. But when the same waterlogged roads are clogged and tragedy strikes, these leaders are nowhere to be seen".  
  • There are no technical suggestions here because the bureaucrats know about that better but please practice compassion. In the tussle between Delhi govt and the Union govt, the bureaucrats are having a field day. They don't listen to the ministers. The same suggestion is for the coaching institutes. 
  • Without adopting transparency and accountability in the UPSC exam process, we can't talk about reducing the number of attempts and reducing the age limit. There are many people who realise what they want in life later on. In addition to this, people from underprivileged background have to work first and become financially secure and then think about what they really want to pursue. (It is easy for the ivory tower bureaucrats to give such recommendations but please get down from your holy pedestal and accept the reality).     

For people writing Mains this year, UPSC won't give us extra time just because this incident happened. So we have to study despite what is happening. UPSC doesn't care about your circumstances, it cares only about the outcome. So prepare keeping that in mind. (Remember people who had their last attempt during the Pandemic period suffered but did they get extra attempts?). The least we can do is voice out our concerns on online platform. 

Aspirants in ORN and Mukherjee Nagar, take care. As I live far away from Delhi, I am voicing out my view here. 

My heartfelt condolences to those who passed away (Tanya, Nevin, Shreya, Neelesh and the one girl who committed suicide due to high room rent). May their soul rest in peace. 

"More work, less talk". 


I will be back!
DM,KV17and6 otherslike this
2.9k views

Neyawnsaid

Current building laws allow coaching  only on GF and FF. But right now they are allowing on higher floors. But that can change anytime. Also the law is not clearly written anywhere, but this year May ( I met@Tata  and did not know that the popular member was from classes , so when he messaged I called him to MCD office to witness first hand the power of bureaucracy - and after the meeting he decided it was better to be a bureaucrat ). So when I argued before the court that nothing in Master Plan stops us ( I had spent 3 days underlining and going through it ) , the DC cited some other clause where something else was written.. So in Master plan also different things are written in different places.. so state is free to use clause which is convenient to them. 

And for GF and First Floor, you will have to outbid Tanishq, Haldiram, Maruti, Hyundai Kalyan Jewellers etc. In our building Best IAS was able to outbid Haldiram ( a 6000 crore turnover company ) , so Haldiram shifted. 

It isnt for nothing they say that fact is stranger than fiction. 

@Neyawn if I may humbly say something. 


You're someone who's seen all the three stages of this exam. You've seen thousands who've cleared and you've seen ten thousands who had it in them but couldn't clear. You clearly understand that beyond a point it's luck. There are so many bright candidates who lose out because things just weren't in their favour in that hour. 


Let's be real, forum can only support people to pass the exam, it cannot guarantee ranks to people. 


While I agree that forum sets high standards, but without utmost humility, i would like to say that you're being very passionate about what you're selling which clearly involves luck to some extent. Being so passionate in this tricky edtech sector can blind you from potentially seeing pitfalls. It's good to be passionate to that extent in arts and sports, but when it comes to business we need hold our emotions back, be a little flexible with approaches and try to be as inclusive as possible (because TAM is what'll help you to dampen the unforeseen shocks in the market). 


As long as you're doing good work, results will come. It shouldn't matter whether you have 200 selections or 700 selections out of 1000. No aspirant looks at those metrics while deciding to invest in you. They look at perceived brand value and trust in the community. 


Make education accessible and affordable (to the extent that works for your business), it'll help you to keep swimming against the tides for a long time. 


In the era of internet, decentralisation is the way. With the advent of AI, offline centers for teaching will be a part of history in the next 5 yesrs. We'll have offline centers only for mentorship, counselling and doubt clearance. 


In the long run, it'll also help you to optimize costs and achieve better efficiency. 


Don't worry about results neyawn, you're anyway doing good work, so people will still trust forum even if the selections come down from 700 to 200. People will trust the processes at forum more than the outcomes when the public perception is built, marketed and sold transparently. 


This is the right opportunity for you to strategise for the future. Decentralisation and customer centric initiatives is the way forward. When that happens, people will pay whatever you ask and will keep the business afloat. 


As business owners of edtech, it would be unethical to impart education to only the bright ones. It's the easy way out. And it won't work for long too. Because the market is super dynamic, what works now don't work 5 years down the lane. 


Try to build courses for everyone who wishes to be a part of this journey towards bureaucracy. That market size will take care of most adversities. 


Would love to see forum all across India. And also, with the giants of funded edtech falling down, there'll be enough vacuum in the market to accomodate and accelerate the growth of a trusted brand like forum. 


Keep innovating and executing. ORN has fallen, the plans for next 10 years should be the things to discuss in the boardroom now. 


Wish you the best and loads of strength in these testing times. Supporting forum always ❤️


To the people, it's a request, please be a little kind towards forum,@Neyawn was once an aspirant like all of us. Let's support this community in these tough times and make it better. Your love and support will only make things better for everyone. 


PS, also@Neyawn iasmocks is defunct 🙂

Neyawn,ShantanuAand5 otherslike this
4.2k views
1. What people who take online classes feel is sense of loneliness and isolation despite being in the batch. Offline coaching allows you to see familiar faces daily, even if u dont talk to them. For online students city/area wise groups can be created so that those who wish to connect with each other can do so. (off course, with proper privacy concerns of students esp females.) Right now me and my neighbour's child would be taking the same class and we wont even know. 
2. For students who dont want to come to ORN, Forum can go to them. Fortnitely/Monthly/bimonthly visits (depending upon the city/area) to places having significant strength of online students. a 2 day/ 1 day workshop to guide, mentor, clarify doubts in person. It would bring extra cost, but i think would be worth it. For online students in NCR region, weekly sessions can be held at locations on the border areas. for eg- Ghaziabad, Noida, Faridabad, gurgaon. Visit to these centres may bring regularity in studies. All this can be done with prior planning and interest of students. this would be something like Open Schools/college.
3. To manage expectation of students, take only those who have some merit based on entrance,etc. I remember Vidyamandir classes used to have entrance for coaching. They were consistently giving results. For a lot of students money is not the issue. It is the value for money that matters. Spending 700-900 per test for evaluation when evaluator is an aspirant like us doesnt seem reasonable. I understand that the money is needed to run the institute and attract talent, but value for money still bothers us. 
4. Innovation in courses can be brought. For eg Dipin Sir is an excellent teacher. He does a lot of research for his content. He and others can share their sources and methods for students to become self reliant. It would be something like "teaching a student to fish ". Focusing on the "How" rather than the What. Focus on "How" is there in courses , but it is not the central aspect of courses. 

5. Let the student know your team. For online students , the biggest problem in mentorship is trusting the mentor. I have seen you and Dipin sir on screen , teaching. I know you guys are good at teaching. But you are not the ones answering mentorship calls. I need to see my mentor on screen teaching, clearing doubts to believe in him. I am sure the mentors you have are good, but it just becomes difficult to trust especially when there is a flood of YT/Telegram mentors. 

At the end, you are responsible for students you enroll. Limit enrollment. Focus on quality. Personal attention is what students want, but dont get in big coachings. I remember being scared to ask doubts in class and after class because there were too many students around. teachers expected specific pin-pointed questions because they had little time for each student.
Make me believe that Forum cares for my result as much i do.

Neyawn,meandydufresneand4 otherslike this
3.7k views

If we need to rethink if we need another Rajendra Nagar or not .. making students argue here won’t help .. self introspection is necessary as an institution…For anyone appreciating FRC and gurugram centre.. I would like to bring it to light that classes in gurugram centre too happened in basement with a narrow exit.. I don’t think it would have appropriate fire safety.. also the roads there as well would get waterlogged at bare minimum rain.. it is also essential to rethink as an institution if you are shifting out why not change modus operandi and find a classroom in a more sanitary and ventilated environment which is capable of holding the crowd of 100-150 students at once..and also ensuring there safe exit in case of a disaster .. while I appreciate the institute for their guidance but would feel ethically wrong in not raising this issue.. as a student I wanted to avoid saying anything  as I want to concentrate on my studies and also know no change would be seen.. but I am just unable to be at peace when you try to have better than thou attitude 

The point of GGN expansion was to have a place similar to ORN so that students do not feel a massive difference, minus the clutter and congestion.

But with the tragedy that has unfolded, things change. Forever. 

Classrooms are made in basement to have sound insulation and save costs. It is also true that roads get waterlogged, and after todays rain, it was scary to think that if someone touched a pole or a wire or a gate that would be in touch with a exposed cable.

Finding a classroom in a more ventilated space - the only option is to have it in Sahara Mall or Vipul Agora mall. Also to meet the safety standards they have to be out and out commercial properties - which would mean, in the case of GGN it would require a travel by the auto.

The conventional model of coaching is to have it near walking distance to save time. That was the whole idea of residential. or even coaching. Travelling far away from your home to a place, not with the goal of taking an auto to travel to coaching classes.

We will probably have to have something within 5 kilometers range of where things are currently. Also when landlords will make property meeting such standards, it will cost nearly 2.5 times. We will have to let go of many students with that kind of fee escalation to factor in the costs.

In fact, every single property will be violative of some municipal law, which opens it to sealing by some or other agency. 

Already the landlords in ORN and the whole adjoining area has increased rents of other floors dividing the rent of the basement among the existing tenants, so do not be surprised of this 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/education/news/after-the-raus-ias-tragedy-upsc-aspirants-find-themselves-in-a-new-plight-exorbitant-library-charges/articleshow/112159984.cms

There are so many compliances that there will always be some compliance we will not be able to meet. Its a structural problem which we cannot solve. Or solve at a cost that will make things super unaffordable.  Or we only get rich kids, who may not deliver the results.

Some students have reached out offering  college buildings to be used for classes. Some people from Akshardham temple committee had come who have large campuses for such works and have showed interest in providing cheap accommodation for aspirants in Gujarat. Let us see what the future holds. 

I do not have a holier than thou attitude. I am clearing saying there is a problem. And we're a part of it. And there is a major part we cannot solve because only the state has the capacity to solve it. And solving the city's infra problem will require taxpayer's money, not student's fees.


I am no knight. Do not call me Sir|Philosophy behind ForumIAS

KV17,Incomingand3 otherslike this
3.8k views
@Neyawn please don't stop sfg even if it means doing it only in online mode. I gave sfg in online mode and it helped set daily goals and give me the boost to be daily disciplined n achieving them. If you are worried about the dilution of results, you can publish results in a specific manner like how many students got selected among those who attempted 60- 70% tests and scored at least 20-30% above marks (to ensure they weren't bogus students).  Something like this would be a good indicator for the institute also to measure if their course was effective or not. 


Honeybadgr,WorkingClassHeroand3 otherslike this
3.3k views

hello@Neyawn 

Not active on this platform, but I have seen forumias grow from guidance ias to shop no 6 to 19, PUSA road. I have worked with vision ias in academic capacity, and unacademy in mergers and acquisitions and finance and now i am working with an investment advisory firm. I am no  longer in the exam cycle and decided to not pursue a corporate career.

You may or may not remember me, but I have been your student ( with Himanshu Gupta, AIR 27 ) in your ethics class. If you could recall, I and Himanshu came to see you after he got rank 27. I am also a CS engineer.

I have seen forum grow and there are parts that I have admired and parts where I think you may need some consultancy. Seeing things from vantage point of forum purely as a business.

Pls do not get me wrong. I have worked with several founders, and seen some of the scale massively and some of them fail. As your student i appreciated your enthusiasm and passion. ( I am from that era when minal karanwal, akshay , nikita , aditya from your cgp / foundation classes cleared the exam, and the academy was still very small )

Here is some inputs for you which may help you think with more clarity, and from where i can see ( i have worked in fund rasining , acquisitions of about a dozen start ups and more than half in edtech sector )

1. as far as i can remember , sometime around 2022-23, your average revenue per user was about 13,000/user/annum. This was abysmal considering that you are an offline player, and if you somehow do not increase this then sooner or later either you will be in trouble or you will need to raise funds (= trouble ? ) . You are now a full pledged coaching and your customers see you in the same way as vajiram. whose average revenue per user exceeds 1,35,000+ / per user / year. it is likley that big players will now squeeze you out...u will also have to find ways and means to reach the AMRPU to 5000 immediately and scale it to 10,000 if u want to do things offline.. or u will have to become an online player.. as u may not survive two winters..

2. I was in ORN just after this incident, and I was a bit cut off from preparation days, but I saw that around your vajiram , nest and "srishti" have taken away all of real estate. which means if you dont have your own building, you wont be able to expand.  I also came to know that some of these building dont have students but have been taken by some coachings to increase cost of doing business for you and other small players.

3. Your current revenue model is difficult to sustain as with less than 1500 / user /month earnings - which is your average figure, you will not be able to pay rents. I am sure than with basements sealed, landlords would have distributed rent across other floors. Corrent me if my information is incorrect, but your rental expensiture as a business is anywhere about 1,65,000 to 1,75,000 per day.  Which is why you are most riled about the recent regulations. 

4. I have always enjoyed your write ups , but here is the thing. Even during our time, when you had shifted to your center in pusa road, you were too enthusiastic about SFG - which often came at a cost to other programs. I remember even our classes would be cancelled but never sfg ( I sat in the park to write sfg ). I do not see you successfully scale even sfg program, and while, as far as i can remember the average fee / day was 60 rs/day, it is now around 100/day.  It is a matter of time that you will either have to increase the price or close it down. Your passion and obsession as a founder with some programs, which is common to every passionate founder, may be detrimetal to ur own organisation.

5. Do not take this in the wrong way, as I would love to see forum grown and expand, but what I feel is that forum has focussed on results and getting good students. I remember even in 2018-19 time you were very keen on ranks and results. But a coaching will not simply run because of rankholders. it will run because it solves the problem of masses with respect to ias preparation. Trying to play god by selecting few students and then getting selections ( such as natasha goyal , IPS last year ) is not what will help forumias in the long run. 

6. I often see your being critical of "srishti". what I think as an investor today that they have built a brilliant business model. They are stable and will not be affected by results / ranks shifting here and there. also they are doing above average job in terms of education. on social media they are no.1 and that counts. when i meet people no one knows forumias , but everyone knows drishti folks. i think that is a big front where forum has completely failed.

7. i see your frustration sir, with respect to quality of students. what you are missing is that markets have changed. it is no longer 2017-18-19 where less than 40,000 to 50,000 are preparing for civils. today people are preparing for civils in lakhs. and thats a market. And when they find affordable edtech courses such as unacademy, studyIQ etc, they take it - even if the quality is not of upsc standards. Your concenrs as a teacher are valid that Youtube, Unaca, StudyQ etc students are just wasting time, they have not got into rigorous preparation. but you see the student today has choice. I saw your comment that if sfg is expensive then there is no point doing it. Why such lack of business approach and lack of emotional intelligence? the students today are not coming from vajiram having paid 2 lakhs so they will find you cheap. they are coming from studyQ and have paid 20K for 2 year course and find you expensive. It is a business problem you have to solve.

8. Lastly, you have not been able to solve the reach problem of forum. I have watched your tete a tete with toppers and seen that u ask everyone how did u come to know about forumias, and they say - everyone knows about it, and somewhat your ego is satisfied.. but dont get me wrong.. people know forumias... after spedning 2-3 years and having paid 2-3 lakhs in coaching.. so when they come to u .. they have no money left to spend.. but as a businessowner that is your problem... not their..

9. you seeking opinion of students is also IMO a bit childish. during preparation, do u think anyone knows about business? i read somewhere that students are demanding that landlords take cash rent. and they are tagging FM to stop that. once govt will put its eye, now landlords will take rent in cheque + 18% GST which student will have to pay,, and probably they dont know about it yet.. 

10. Forum has done a brilliant job in terms if quality... not sure about all india,,, but in delhi you have beaten vision in mains test series... last year my junior from college got selected and she was praising your content like anything... but thats it!... u will have to take quick decisions and as@Pizzza has said,, focus on making education affordable and increase the scale.. ranks will keep coming and going..u hv enough ranks to satisfy ur ego or ambitions

i hv tried my best to be constructive,, and i hope that u take in the right spirit.. u may want to take some consultancy with respect to forum...u know how to reach me.. adios.


Dhertez,Dead Manand3 otherslike this
2.8k views

While it is possible to do classes in online mode, having bunch of people around studying and with common goal helps, so the need for offline at least in the beginning year of preparation.

And if things are good ,then things become crowded.

We thought that we will get people selected from a residential academy. We succeeded in parts. We thought we will make a less congested Rajinder Nagar. And with the fall of ORN, we need to rethink if we even want another Rajinder Nagar.


I am no knight. Do not call me Sir|Philosophy behind ForumIAS

mohanapriya_mudoms640,JakePeralta7and2 otherslike this
13.4k views
  • Institutes have become too big, hold significant financial, legal and human resources. They should serve as platforms on behalf of the student fraternity. They should take up the matter legally and lead the protests to bring about systemic reforms. Will Forum IAS do so? 

  • Issues in the ORN are known to everybody here (rents, illegal construction, waterlogging, naked wires, women safety…) , but what are legal mandates and Safeguards, students and parents are unaware of this. As the full page ads of institutes are published, there should be a detailed explanation on legality of such issues, as awareness for the students residing there, as a caution for the parents wanting to send their children there, and as an eye opener for the authorities.  

  • Clearly, the institutes have become profit making machines, churning out crores each month. A big portion of profits should be shelved out for the welfare of students, as a social responsibility. Students are migrants in search of dreams. Hostels and libraries be constructed for the poor and disprivileged. Will Forum IAS do so?

    • Access to teachers be democratised. We need guidance and support at each step. But here, teachers don't really care for it. 
    • Mindset shift is the biggest need of the hour. Education has come to be seen as a money game. Two considerations can be seen here, 
      • Start by cleansing the mindsets, and separate the profits aside when running the education institutes. 

      • Education be seen as imparting knowledge, developing intellectual capabilities in students and shaping their personalities, and not just preparing them for rat race. 

    Coaching institutes should consider themselves as a major stakeholder in the education policy of the country. 


    And finally, fees for the MGP be reduced. 


    Neyawn,GaneshGaitondeand2 otherslike this
    3.8k views
    @NeyawnForum can focus on decentralisation to places around delhi.
    Coming to delhi might not be the best option seeing the problems this place offers.
    But this exam requires a certain level of discipline, consistency which is provided by coachings and especially programmes like FRC and SFG.

    So yes, little here in ORN and a lot could be done in other new place.
    There's a famous institute in Pune for civil services and they have no. of centres all around the city and also a big campus providing library and hostel facilities.
    Something on these lines could be done.

    ORN is over saturated. The quality of life is worst for the aspirants living in ORN.
    If the institute is good, students are ready to relocate to better and safe place, I think it's the best option.


    Neyawn,DMand2 otherslike this
    3.1k views

    One thing that is disturbing is focus has shifted from MCD to coaching institutes, not giving them clean chit but state of Urban infrastructure and civic amenities is in rumbles across length and breadth of the country. This has to be taken care of. It is a time taking process but it has to begin somewhere. 

    Regarding over congestion of Karol Bagh, ORN etc. the only feasible solution is to move out. That has to be done with a consensus between civic authorities and coaching institutes. It can solve the problem of accommodation as well if planned accordingly. DDA/MCD along with institutes should look for alternative land where this can be done.

    Decentralization of centers has to be there, one way can be live streaming of few classes from Delhi centre and few offline classes where teacher is present at regional centre(if availability of teacher is an issue). For this a shift in attitude is required, it will happen gradually. 

    Neyawn,KV17and2 otherslike this
    3.7k views
    What measures are taken by Forum ias for classroom students  bcoz a class was conducted in the basement.

    There are 3 major safety protocols that need to be followed for safety in classrooms as per law

    1. Two gates - entry and exit gates wide enough on each floor

    2. Setting up network of water sprinklers in the class with separate water tank for fire

    3. Adequate fire extinguishers as recommended by DFS 

    All the above are in place in all classrooms where the size is above 100 yards.

    No FIRE Noc is needed for floors on L1 and L2 as per DFS in case of any event, the height of building is low enough to facilitate emmergency rescue.

    NOC is issued to buildings and not to coachings. Commercial buildings where we hold classes are built as per the building code


    I am no knight. Do not call me Sir|Philosophy behind ForumIAS

    Dead Man,Siebzehnand2 otherslike this
    4.9k views

    In DU north campus areas of kamla nagar, shakti nagar, etc. the pg rent issue is not as rampant as in case ORN, students there love their freedom and are also very goal oriented (tho there are exceptions), the place seems super student friendly, even the food is good quality and pocket friendly. But, the situation changes for worse in case of ORN, depressed people, evil landlords, congested and polluted roads, i wonder if it is the upsc-coaching-landlord nexus that has made the plight of students at ORN deplorable. Not pointing fingers at coachings (you have enough people to do that), because an overwhelming majority of students themselves see this exam only as an opportunity to gain social prestige rather than, becoming an IAS who works selflessly to improve the system, you take away the perks and emoluments and see how many stay. Offline environment encouraging the lazy lot to slog is no excuse to choose offline over online, if that is the case these feeble brains will break the minute they face resistance as an officer, eventually bandwagoning with corrupt forces. What you need is a system, there are 100s of aspirants  who crack the exam from their homes. self-imposed discipline is all you need. If you still choose to go for offline for whatever consideration, feel free to do so, but remember. then you'll be the price taker with little to no bargaining power. Expanding to different pockets of Delhi will not serve the purpose, because eventually those areas too will go beyond their carrying capacity. 

    Long story short ->the nature of the exam, the competition, lack of equally good opportunities and the glory associated to it has made ORN what it is today. Bubble that was ORN was waiting to burst.

    PS - sorry i digressed a little towards the end, i don't intend on demeaning anyone, i just want people to reconsider their priorities, because the goal is to working towards a better India, be it via UPSC, MBA, entrepreneurship, etc.

    Neyawn,Dhertezand1 otherslike this
    12.2k views
    I don’t think institutions are not empathetic. You cannot just blame them because they are charging you some money. They are after all delivering services. The top management definitely are running the institutions with a profit motive. But from my personal interactions, the teachers & mentors were efficient, empathetic and humble unlike our college professors. 

    But the professors don’t earn as much as probably the coaching people make and in India whoever makes money has to be branded a Devil. 

    The real culprit is the administration. Who is the enforcer of rules ? The systematic corruption in the administration is to be blamed. They take bribes, do nothing and then just arrest a SUV driver for the death of our brothers and sisters. Ridiculous!

    Who is to be blamed for the death of the bright mind who was electrocuted last week ? Who is the real culprit?

    A culpable homicide case should be registered against the officers who inspected the premises, those who were responsible for enforcing rules and those who took bribes. 

    Overall, I don’t see this as an ORN problem. Indian cities and urbanisation is haphazard. Unless and until we decentralise things, nothing will change. We need big ticket reforms like Social Accountability bill that allows public to launch enquiries against officials. 

    If the officials were efficient, coachings will become efficient too. If there are proper rules and enforcements, even coachings will adhere to set norms and standards. But there is NO ENFORCEMENT at all. 

    I don’t think coaching can do anything except maybe involve the students on a platform and become the AGONY AUNT’s like the Jeetu Bhaiya on Kota factory. They are far powerless than we can imagine. Most might think that administration is in the pockets of these big institutions. Well, I don’t think so. They are equally harassed by the incompetent and corrupt officials. 

    You remember how Vision IAS was raided by IT department for an ideological comment by their teacher. 

    However, the distrust between coaching and students is rising day by day. Slowly and steadily, people are looking at most institutions as part of the GREAT COACHING MAFIA. Transparency and communication is the only way this can be bridged 



    exactlyy! And the sad part is, these issues have always existed but it took 4 deaths to cause an outrage! 

    GaneshGaitonde,Mango_Personand1 otherslike this
    3.9k views
    1. @Neyawn sir,

      What Next?

      1- As we know Kota, Rajasthan is one of the most crowded cities for students. Approximately, 10 lakh students stay and in one coaching approximately 2 lakh students enroll every year BUT WHY THERE are NO ISSUES LIKE FIRE, WATER, etc?
      Because coaching institutes bought new lands and then they made awesome infrastructure that fulfilled all the safety norms. Buying new land and setting large infrastructure was also challenging for them and at that time there was no land available in Kota (like right now in Delhi) but they chose to buy land in the outer area of Kota (8-9 KM from the Railway Station) and now this place is known as New Kota where coaching industries run. 

      2- Just take an example of any Kota's institute like Desonance. The main building of Desonance includes 7-8 exit gates on each floor, 1 very wide ramp, more than 2 lifts, Cycle Stand, etc. 

      3- I understand that Delhi does not have so much land but nowadays a voice is coming to shift in Narela. If there is sufficient land then it would be nice. 

      4- One request is that please try to provide a library facility also. 

    Neyawn,AK48and1 otherslike this
    3.1k views

    Except the land owners of ORN, no one is happy. Students have to pay high rent for shitty rooms. You look to the sky and its covered with multiple kind of tangled wires. 
    Pusa road might have land rates shooting over 100crs, hence institutes and libraries adopt measures to cut cost.

    I wonder what made this place a 'hub' for IAS coaching! 

    Perhaps institutes should collude and shift to some place else. Making it a planned 'hub'. This sounds too utopian though.

    Dead Man,TheMissingStar
    12.6k views
    @Neyawn  maybe start with your institute first.  Lead by example , avoid using basements for classes ( forumias has a basement) . Advertise that you are not doing that.  Stop charging high fees for every course of the earth  . The prices of sfg are very high . The answer  check-ing quality of awfg is very poor . Similar to dristi ias you people also started posting mock interviews of students with a sole intention of garnering more views / market more courses  


    Sorry for the 15m answer for a 10 marks question. I hope I won't be charged for getting this answer checked . 




    The basement issue is over. No classes of Forum will be held in basements.

    If you and other people think that SFG is expensive that we'll close that as well. It won't be possible to run it. Because it will require us to have large seating capacity. And SFG in onlin mode wont work for many students.

    Interview videos i think are harmless and don't even attract views.


    I am no knight. Do not call me Sir|Philosophy behind ForumIAS

    HimalayanQuail,JohnDoeIndia
    13.1k views
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