[Open Conversation] What is the final solution?

Work Experience as a prerequisite : Is it like dinner will be served for those only who had breakfast and dinner?. 

attempts : Please rethink which direction your are going. its totally un related. The deaths were very unfortunate , and could have been anyone - any stakeholder of any age ; may be an employee of the organization on the verge of retirement ;  may be the faculty ; maybe the support staff [Hope for everyone's safety however take worst into account while making any suggestion ]. IS IT CORRECT TO SAY THEY SHOULD NOT WORK POST SOME AGE  OR THEY SHOULD HAVE PRIOR EXPERIENCE OF WORKING IN UNSAFE CONDITIONS. ? 

That should not be certainly the process. 

Wishing you best of luck 

Lets not further debate on this.

If we need to rethink if we need another Rajendra Nagar or not .. making students argue here won’t help .. self introspection is necessary as an institution…For anyone appreciating FRC and gurugram centre.. I would like to bring it to light that classes in gurugram centre too happened in basement with a narrow exit.. I don’t think it would have appropriate fire safety.. also the roads there as well would get waterlogged at bare minimum rain.. it is also essential to rethink as an institution if you are shifting out why not change modus operandi and find a classroom in a more sanitary and ventilated environment which is capable of holding the crowd of 100-150 students at once..and also ensuring there safe exit in case of a disaster .. while I appreciate the institute for their guidance but would feel ethically wrong in not raising this issue.. as a student I wanted to avoid saying anything  as I want to concentrate on my studies and also know no change would be seen.. but I am just unable to be at peace when you try to have better than thou attitude 

One thing that is disturbing is focus has shifted from MCD to coaching institutes, not giving them clean chit but state of Urban infrastructure and civic amenities is in rumbles across length and breadth of the country. This has to be taken care of. It is a time taking process but it has to begin somewhere. 

Regarding over congestion of Karol Bagh, ORN etc. the only feasible solution is to move out. That has to be done with a consensus between civic authorities and coaching institutes. It can solve the problem of accommodation as well if planned accordingly. DDA/MCD along with institutes should look for alternative land where this can be done.

Decentralization of centers has to be there, one way can be live streaming of few classes from Delhi centre and few offline classes where teacher is present at regional centre(if availability of teacher is an issue). For this a shift in attitude is required, it will happen gradually. 

Point 2 actually makes sense, regional centers could be the Mains centers (24 in number) with temporal and spatial variability. Forum already has its own centers in Patna and hyd.

Another reason why the plan of decongesting ORN with coachings shifting to newer locations may not work is that in game theory you learn about nash equilibrium, all the participants anticipate each others' moves, example - institute x would expect institutes y and z to move out, whereas institute y would hope the same and similarly for institute x, because no one would want to miss out on reaping the dividends and leave an already established hub. 

Trying to model another ORN in other regions is a naive attempt atsupply creating its own demand, this would require pouring a tremendous amount of resources and god knows when you'll reach break even. See, coachings are not NGOs, at best we can demand quality at the price at which courses are offered and to some extent a downward revision of the prices of some courses, because that is the morally right thing to do.

As for FORUMIAS, the institute can focus on revamping some programmes that haven't seen much success, might as well scrap some, this will ensure quality, focus on your specialisation, specialisation will be the real game. Foundation would become redundant, students would prefer module courses as online gains more space among the aspirants while the ORN bubble begins to deflate.

This letter has been released by the LG office. As per point 9(iv), coaching institutes might provide reading rooms/library for students on temporary basis as we hardly have sufficient private libraries on 1st or 2nd floors with safety measures. @neyawn sir if there is any provision for the same at FORUM then please let us know. Hunting for a library since few days. Thanks! 

Link of the letter: https://x.com/ani/status/1818638245330301365?s=46&t=_mYgbonB4sXDS669b0jMjw

The point of GGN expansion was to have a place similar to ORN so that students do not feel a massive difference, minus the clutter and congestion.

But with the tragedy that has unfolded, things change. Forever. 

Classrooms are made in basement to have sound insulation and save costs. It is also true that roads get waterlogged, and after todays rain, it was scary to think that if someone touched a pole or a wire or a gate that would be in touch with a exposed cable.

Finding a classroom in a more ventilated space - the only option is to have it in Sahara Mall or Vipul Agora mall. Also to meet the safety standards they have to be out and out commercial properties - which would mean, in the case of GGN it would require a travel by the auto.

The conventional model of coaching is to have it near walking distance to save time. That was the whole idea of residential. or even coaching. Travelling far away from your home to a place, not with the goal of taking an auto to travel to coaching classes.

We will probably have to have something within 5 kilometers range of where things are currently. Also when landlords will make property meeting such standards, it will cost nearly 2.5 times. We will have to let go of many students with that kind of fee escalation to factor in the costs.

In fact, every single property will be violative of some municipal law, which opens it to sealing by some or other agency. 

Already the landlords in ORN and the whole adjoining area has increased rents of other floors dividing the rent of the basement among the existing tenants, so do not be surprised of this 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/education/news/after-the-raus-ias-tragedy-upsc-aspirants-find-themselves-in-a-new-plight-exorbitant-library-charges/articleshow/112159984.cms

There are so many compliances that there will always be some compliance we will not be able to meet. Its a structural problem which we cannot solve. Or solve at a cost that will make things super unaffordable.  Or we only get rich kids, who may not deliver the results.

Some students have reached out offering  college buildings to be used for classes. Some people from Akshardham temple committee had come who have large campuses for such works and have showed interest in providing cheap accommodation for aspirants in Gujarat. Let us see what the future holds. 

I do not have a holier than thou attitude. I am clearing saying there is a problem. And we're a part of it. And there is a major part we cannot solve because only the state has the capacity to solve it. And solving the city's infra problem will require taxpayer's money, not student's fees.

We have none. Don't know of any.

Hearing these points, I feel making online studying more robust can help. I disagree with the decentralisation aspect cause one student might need help from different coaching institutes. So until n unless the entire fraternity decides to shift to some other locality it won't be that favourable for students.

To make online space more robust:

1. the live lectures can be in Zoom format so it gives a greater classroom feeling and interaction prospect. like students online can raise their hands and ask doubt instead of just typing it in the chatbox.

2. Removing the lecture after a few days (this was there in another institute n it helped me a lot in finishing 130 lectures on time instead of creating backlogs)

3. virtual libraries. I am part of a ypt group that was made from this very community. Long back, dipin sir had also made a spreadsheet where he would punch in n punch out along with students when he used to work. I would say YPT is similar to what sir had intended to do then.

Further zoom meets-based library can be tried (personally haven't done this as could not find anyone I could sync with), . Forum can institute n proctor these sessions based on, say course package for awfg etc. and if someone doesn't study well etc over time they can be dropped out. over time the cohort will become small and focussed. This can emulate the feeling that others are studying, so we should also study and if faculties can also be part of this when they do their work at forum centre (prepping n researching for class) it will boost online students morale and help them deal with isolation. 

beyond this as you said, it is a city infra level problem. maybe the recent LG circular for shifting to narela and rohini can be looked into. 

"The conventional model of coaching is to have it near walking distance to save time. That was the whole idea of residential. or even coaching. Travelling far away from your home to a place, not with the goal of taking an auto to travel to coaching classes."@Neyawn 

Kota's case of expansion can be looked into.

1. Initially bansal sir used to conduct classes in Vigyan Nagar (comparable to ORN and Mukherjee Nagar)
2. Later on with larger influx of students (2008ish) Bansal Classes shifted to the industrial area along with Carrer Point followed by Resonance, in close vicinity Allen also devloped.
3. Students there use Cycles at scale, female students genrally use shared auto.
4. The ecosystem in the said area is many KMs away from the city center and highly student centric and student supportive (from tiffin/mess walas to police )which is not the case with Karol Bag-here student's intrest compete with intrest of other commercial activity and are hence compromised (at best) and most of the times exploited.
5. what the community@delhi needs is an ecosytem tailored to thier needs which can not happen at karol bag or MN.
6. students alot of the time find themselves stuggling with issues which should not have been a concern in the first place the ecosystem instead of providing flow gives a lot of resistence, at times actively sabotaging the efforts of the aspirants-teachers-mentors.

The suggestions coming out of developing a new ORN by the Delhi Govt, is going upto Rohini and Narela, almost at the outskirts of Delhi as we know it. Your take on this@Neyawn ?

Finally, I am writing my views on this topic after reading about a lot of things. I am not a famous person but still this incident has affected me a lot and hence, I am voicing out the same here.

The tragedy which happened in ORN was not only unfortunate but could have been avoided if we had adopted continuous accountability measures instead of the current episodic accountability system in place. 

Let's just dig deep into the issue: 

• The administration (public and private) waits for a disaster to happen and then takes countermeasures. The system doesn't take action till there's a social media outrage over it.
• Till about a month ago, no one cared about UPSC aspirants and their conditions. I remember visiting ORN to meet a friend in May 2024. [I was planning to shift there. One of my friends was already there and we both had been planning to give offline mocks. This is because I come from a city where guidance related to UPSC is limited to royal entry reels, topper motivation reels etc. None of the good coaching institutes have their centres here even though it is an important and well off city of the country]. I remember the rooms in Mukherjee Nagar were partitioned by a "cardboard". The room was like a confinement chamber. The summer made the room hot, closed room made it humid and the "common" bathroom smell added to the misery. But the rent? 9.5k per month. The next room (in ORN) was demanding 18k per month as room rent. I had convinced myself thinking that "Part of the journey hai, sab toh kar hi rahe hai" but unfortunately that's what every serious aspirant who comes to the UPSC hub thinks. They think this is the system here so we have two alternatives- either protest about the inhumane condition OR study. If aspirants had protested to prevent such an incident, the administration would have ignored it saying, Kuch hua kya abhi tak burra?. This is the attitude which needs to change in India irrespective of the political parties in power. We wait for the burra to happen. Those who dissent, criticize and point out the flaws in the system are called variety of names and are eventually silenced. When disaster strikes, these people lament about the fact that they told the administration beforehand. 
• Recently, the govt came out with a bill to regulate coaching institutes now. But question is: The coaching industry has thrived ever since the exam started. We are bringing a bill now? After more than "75" years of independence? After the death of 5 aspirants? 
• Take the Puja Khedkar controversy. Clearly, the girl is from a rich family background and most of the candidates who qualify do have a good background. The sad reality is: these people can afford to play with the system. For all we know, she will hire a top lawyer and keep the case in limbo. The way our judicial system is, we know what will happen. That's why when a person who is an autorickshaw driver's son/daughter or any child of a socially disadvantaged group makes it to the list, their tale is romanticized and "news" is created. We overlook the fact that they are outliers! Infact everyone who gets into the list is an outlier! We can't take their example and set out to prepare. 
• Neither UPSC cares nor you would care why a person failed. In the end, it just matters whether you are in the list or out of the list. People will come to listen only to the victorious ones and not the ones who failed (obviously because of the number). Infact, people romanticize the 1st attempt mai clear karna stuff so much that it is annoying. I remember a faculty saying you are not a serious aspirant if you have taken 2 or more attempts. But the reality is that there are serious aspirants often end up reading "all" the recommended books so that their selection is guaranteed. To ensure this guarantee, a prominent faculty often brings out 2000 pages of Economy notes every year and claims that if you don't read those, you won't clear Prelims. The thought of not clearing Prelims and becoming an IAS in the first attempt invokes fear and anxiety in the minds of the aspirants. That's where some 'dubious' coaching institutes come in the picture and claim "Guaranteed Prelims and Guaranteed Mains" programmes. Hence, aspirants end up joining them. 
• Next- privilege, a person from a good background irrespective of their reservation category might end up scoring better than the one who is not from such a background. People from far off areas come to ORN and Mukherjee Nagar thinking that they will crack UPSC and serve their country. But now the sad reality is: the underprivileged kid is overexploited in the city whereas privileged kids are provided all types of facilities when they sit for the exam.
• Personal story: [When I used to live in Dhanbad, I had to travel 4 hrs to my Mains centre in Ranchi. And guess what, there was only one centre for all of Jharkhand. So people from far off areas had to take hotel rooms in Ranchi for a period of almost one week. It costed me around 12k to survive there just to give Mains exam. I consider myself privileged enough that I could afford that amount. But when I got there, the hotel room was in a basement with no ventilation with snails creeping out of the toilet (So yes, not only coaching institutes but hotels are also opened up in basements). Fortunately enough, I met a college friend in the exam hall itself and we took a room together. But all of this chaos was during Mains! Now everyone saw just the end result and not the story behind it. My point is we have to take into account the privileges one had while they prepared for an exam. If you can't control the privileges part then focus on insulating your prep from such psychological turmoil. I couldn't do it in that attempt and hence, I couldn't clear (In addition, to other factors like strategy)]. 
• Again, no offence to anyone who has a good background but let's just acknowledge our privileges and paint a true picture of things instead of romanticizing stuff.  
• Recently, a girl had committed suicide in ORN (I can't recall her name) when her "landlord" asked her to leave. In her suicide letter, she also writes about planning to become IAS in the "1st attempt". She was from a humble background (Not affluent). People, who come from Tier 2 or Tier 3 cities where guidance is close to zero, learn from online sources. That's where YouTube comes in the picture and role of teachers like Vikas Divyakirti and Awadh Ojha assumes importance. These people have painted a rosy picture and this picture became these people's dreams. When the reality strikes, this dream breaks. When it breaks, there's anger. I am sure some clips might have been quoted out of context but it is what it is. 
• Next, will UPSC and DoPT accept their mistakes? What about the allegations of fake OBC and PwD certificates? Everyone clearly knows why the notification said only Puja was such an exception and everything else is fine - it will open the Pandora's box. The administration knows that protest and outrage won't last for long no matter how emotional the incident is. 

Coming to the education part: 

• Oh the rot runs so deep here! Coaching institutes are present because the formal educational system is highly inadequate to address the demands of education. 
• We reduce syllabus in the name of reducing pressure on the student. But did the syllabus of competitive exams change? Did the syllabus of UPSC become less hard? or Did life become less hard? NO. So who will fulfill that gap? Coaching institutes. 
• But yes, some coaching institutes are good and do really help the aspirants. But why are they not part of the formal educational industry? Why do most students sit at the last bench in their college but fight for the first bench in a coaching institute? Why are we paying lakhs of money in addition to our college degrees?

What needs to be done? The solution?

• Broadly, accept mistakes! Look beyond money! (Why did the recent landslide happen when Kasturirangan and Gadgil Committee recommendations had clearly pointed out environmental issues in their respective reports? Groups protested against the Committee being "too environment friendly"! Govt overlooked it. What happened? Tragedy. Now tell me who are we going to blame?).
• Practice what you preach(Ethics).
• Learn to take responsibility! I loved how Shri Swati Maliwal, MP in Rajya Sabha, framed it, "When a road is built, all local politicians would fight about the fact that the road should be named after them. But when the same waterlogged roads are clogged and tragedy strikes, these leaders are nowhere to be seen".  
• There are no technical suggestions here because the bureaucrats know about that better but please practice compassion. In the tussle between Delhi govt and the Union govt, the bureaucrats are having a field day. They don't listen to the ministers. The same suggestion is for the coaching institutes. 
• Without adopting transparency and accountability in the UPSC exam process, we can't talk about reducing the number of attempts and reducing the age limit. There are many people who realise what they want in life later on. In addition to this, people from underprivileged background have to work first and become financially secure and then think about what they really want to pursue. (It is easy for the ivory tower bureaucrats to give such recommendations but please get down from your holy pedestal and accept the reality).     

For people writing Mains this year, UPSC won't give us extra time just because this incident happened. So we have to study despite what is happening. UPSC doesn't care about your circumstances, it cares only about the outcome. So prepare keeping that in mind. (Remember people who had their last attempt during the Pandemic period suffered but did they get extra attempts?). The least we can do is voice out our concerns on online platform. 

Aspirants in ORN and Mukherjee Nagar, take care. As I live far away from Delhi, I am voicing out my view here. 

My heartfelt condolences to those who passed away (Tanya, Nevin, Shreya, Neelesh and the one girl who committed suicide due to high room rent). May their soul rest in peace. 

"More work, less talk". 

@Neyawn I am not sure if I have interpreted question correctly or not i.e. are we talking about final solution for coaching institutes or for places like Delhi itself ?

We first need to set are radar right. Checking coaching institutes only or putting accountability where it actually shall be, the administration.

As per my understanding for coaching related issues some suggestions are:

1. There is no point in exploring new areas, the so called less congested areas of today will end up being ORN of tomorrow.

2. Instead it is better to explore hybrid mode like fixing no. of seats in offline mode to 180 (some might say it is too much but keeping in mind infra and cost it might take for one class this no. has to be at least 170-180 and buildings with good safety facilities can cater to this, also for those with more concern regarding this 180 no. they need to keep in mind the population density of India. But no. of classes with 180 students in 1 building needs to be scientifically evaluated and fixed.

3. De congestion of test centers by associating with schools, college buildings in as many states across the country as possible so that students far away get an idea of exam environment ( this i feel is 1 reason why many students with 2-3 attempt miss at there home and also harms them in exam and finally they have to come to place like Delhi even when they are done with there basic studies). This can be done through out the year rather than only during last days of pre or mains.

4. Coaching can cut down cost of courses by scaling up online availability. For concerns like mentorship by those who actually teach credit system based session shall be promoted.

5. Continuous category like system ( running/ walking ) based on classes attended by student, tests attempted, mentorships taken, scores in exams etc. so that students keep getting realization of competition from home as well as offline throughout year and does not end up bursting there false confidence bubble after 12-18 months of there youth is spent in this exam.

6. For course like SFG which actually rely on discipline and that to more in offline mode consideration for cancelling it just because right now we are not able to get infrastructure sorted is not prudent idea. Something that have delivered results shall be promoted rather than cut down. As far as cost element goes getting finances via sponsors or something likewise can be considered.

7. Most importantly gap between aspirants and teachers needs to bridged actively with teachers reaching out students ASAP online/offline whichever way possible and to fight out system of highs as whole rather than aspirants vs coaching.