CSE 2020 Results out! Best of Luck for Prelims 2021 - ForumIAS

CSE 2020 Results out! Best of Luck for Prelims 2021

Best of Luck for Prelims 2021

So the results are out!

Anyone from the community made it ? :)

Anyone from SFG :P


********Hall of Fame CSE 2020******

Congratulations to the rank holders who made it to the final list. Here are the students of ForumIAS who made it in the Top 100 -Click Here.

root,ssver2and24 otherslike this
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183 comments

@Neyawn With respect to this situation, will give him a benefit of doubt. But we can take an opportunity to discuss how "big" we continue to make this exam appear.

If not in this scale, there are many instances where civil services is projected as important. It is not about a particular community or state. There are many who actually are 'inspired' to achieve this for the show they get. Someone actually asked here 'if not for this what else' one prepares for.

What's the nature of this job? this is not some international competition where Indians fight for crucial posts and if they don't win someone lese steals it (I believe its high time we get over the colonial hang). Our government every year recruits from our own people so they can put into posts where they ensure faithful implementation of policies designed by the government. If not person 'X', person 'Y' will fill the post and there will be invariably someone who gets posted in every state. Achieving positions that get invariably get filled no matter what the difficulty of the exam is not something to be celebrated with such show. 

But innovations in science and technology is not like that. If a particular person has not worked on it, certain discoveries may not see the light of the world. If a brilliant businessperson doesn't make certain risks, we cannot see certain growth. Similarly, there are numerous such avenues. But the light this exam takes obscures every other field that can make great contributions to development. Potential achievers 'inspired' by such show spend years preparing for this exam. Even if they move on to different fields later, they carry a scar of 'failing big' resulting in low esteem.

We as a society (the aspirant community, government, academicians along with innocent people) have failed to objectively gauge the contributions of several fields that can make to the development of the society. If this is the ultimate 'inspiration' to many, I am concerned.


There is nothing that you have said above that I disagree to :)

I once asked an investment banking friend, you have almost turned into a corporate slave. He was one of the few people in India who actually got a 7 figure salary including bonuses at an age of 28. What will do you with so much perks and bonuses?

He said something, which was worth giving a thought. He said that’s the only thing you can do. He said if I don’t “ indulge “ in it , I may just have an existential crisis. Some sorta mid life crisis worrying about what the duck am I doing in life. That’s another set of depression.

While you are into something, you have to make a big deal out of it. Else you may not even have the motivation for it. 

You know what is more dangerous than people who don’t think it’s a great job? People who crack the services and think its a crappy job. All the responsibility, political pressure and thankless public. Try meeting one of those.

As far as the “inspiration” part is concerned,  aren’t we all under the colonial hangover?


P.S. Thank you for keeping the debate mature and impersonal :)

ssver2,JSMilland8 otherslike this
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ssver2,discoFighterand1 otherslike this
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@Neyawn So much agree with you here. I am state services officer in a state where state services still are a big deal. I have had 3 postings thus far. I like to believe that "power has not gone to my head" as I chose a very low profile posting for my current role. This was driven by the fact that with power comes great responsibility and with responsibility all the expectations of public, of accountability , of your seniors, of your own self. Administration is not an easy job. Once the initial rush settles down, then the reality comes knocking on your door. I think this reality comes for everyone. That is why administrators like to believe that they are doing something great because without thinking so, and often repeatedly telling themselves this, one wouldn't survive a day in administration. Particularly if one is honest.
Neyawn,Auroraand11 otherslike this
4k views
@Neyawn Infact I would argue, Having people look up to you and come and pay their respects is itself a big motivating factor. They are there because they respect hardwork and success, and those values are worthy of being respected. When you see so many people coming and looking up to you as inspiration, you get a lot of energy and strength to do much better stuff in life and hence become a better administrator, innovate policy more effectively and get to bring change much faster. As Paulo Coelho said, "The world changes by your example, not by your opinion". Shubham has done it, so people deep down feel the need to see and visit this person who has achieved success. That's one of the best ways to live life, I feel. 
Further, in a general sense, I feel we have very, very less gratitude for the tremendous hardwork and dedication the present level of administrators/officers/civil servants are putting to keep this humongous system functioning. It is quite a hard job, and those who do it day and night deserve our gratitude. A little bit, if not much. 


peterparker,THE_MECHANIC
4.1k views

@mahi2501 I am an old ( age wise too! 😥 )

member here so you may see people agreeing with me on some issues. That does not mean they are disagreeing with you . Please don’t disappear after taking this the wrong way :(

I won’t forgive myself, then!

THE_MECHANIC,
4.7k views
@Neyawn So much agree with you here. I am state services officer in a state where state services still are a big deal. I have had 3 postings thus far. I like to believe that "power has not gone to my head" as I chose a very low profile posting for my current role. This was driven by the fact that with power comes great responsibility and with responsibility all the expectations of public, of accountability , of your seniors, of your own self. Administration is not an easy job. Once the initial rush settles down, then the reality comes knocking on your door. I think this reality comes for everyone. That is why administrators like to believe that they are doing something great because without thinking so, and often repeatedly telling themselves this, one wouldn't survive a day in administration. Particularly if one is honest.

The last part, yes that’s so very true. You gotta believe you are doing something great, or you wouldn’t survive doing ANYTHING.

THE_MECHANIC,Snow_Leopard_
4.7k views
@Neyawn Infact I would argue, Having people look up to you and come and pay their respects is itself a big motivating factor. They are there because they respect hardwork and success, and those values are worthy of being respected. When you see so many people coming and looking up to you as inspiration, you get a lot of energy and strength to do much better stuff in life and hence become a better administrator, innovate policy more effectively and get to bring change much faster. As Paulo Coelho said, "The world changes by your example, not by your opinion". Shubham has done it, so people deep down feel the need to see and visit this person who has achieved success. That's one of the best ways to live life, I feel. 
Further, in a general sense, I feel we have very, very less gratitude for the tremendous hardwork and dedication the present level of administrators/officers/civil servants are putting to keep this humongous system functioning. It is quite a hard job, and those who do it day and night deserve our gratitude. A little bit, if not much. 


I wouldn’t go as far to say that a public should be thankful or “indebted” to the public servant who serves them, but yes a small recognition is always good. The indebtedness is a very third world phenomena, but the recognition and acknowledgment exists even in the first world.

I will agree to the part that more people see Shubham as a success , than just an IAS officer. And success is rewarded ( not very equally though) in almost all walks of life.

THE_MECHANIC,
4.7k views

And people here, do you know that@Inselberg from the forum has under 30 rank and will be joining IFS. let us congratulate him and ruin his anonymity which he so ardently asked me to protect this morning 😬😈😈 ( evil smile )

Itachi,Auroraand12 otherslike this
4.6k views
Deleted

:flushed:In the video posted, security and reception, here in my state only ministers get dat! he sounds humble thou! 

3.7k views
@Neyawn I am not disappearing anywhere. I am afraid if I am being misunderstood. 
I did not mean to say civil services are totally unimportant. But it is the unequal importance it gets in comparison to other great avenues. Thanks for agreeing on the indebtedness part. The candidates voluntarily worked hard to clear the exam, competed with lakhs to steal the position. It's not the public who requested them to fill the jobs to feel they are indebted. One call of quits and there will again be 100s in competition to fill it.

But as you said, those who call this job crappy are not really dangerous too. Some where everyone is aware that there is need for serious reforms and not everything with bureaucracy is perfect. Let them complain, it will bring to the attention of the establishment that either administrative reforms are to be implemented or it could lead to a realization that people with no aptitude are selected to the post, leading to reform of examination system. Let their be more critical discussions rather than blind acceptance of things. Let aspiring civil servants know, they are going to be public servants in a democracy and giving public the dignity is their obligation.


THE_MECHANIC,
3.7k views
In a fatalistic and status-quoist society like ours, no one questions anything. Only duty of people is to faithfully follow what god figures instruct/order/advice. In UPSC world, UPSC is the presiding god and coaching mafia is the pantheon of second order gods. Topper worshipping serves the interests of venal politicians, simpleton countrymen, vulture media as well as cunning coaching mafia. No candidate can get through CSE by reading crap materials of coaching mafia. Test series are a huge wastage of time and money. Coaching instructors cant answer any conceptual question. Yet they have managed to trap candidates by cunningly creating an environment through brain washing advertisement,eyewashing discussion on online forums and worshipping toppers who can endorse their con business. I sincerely hope that govt bans for profit coaching shops in near future, following footstep of China.
THE_MECHANIC,
3.6k views

abc123said

In a fatalistic and status-quoist society like ours, no one questions anything. Only duty of people is to faithfully follow what god figures instruct/order/advice. In UPSC world, UPSC is the presiding god and coaching mafia is the pantheon of second order gods. Topper worshipping serves the interests of venal politicians, simpleton countrymen, vulture media as well as cunning coaching mafia. No candidate can get through CSE by reading crap materials of coaching mafia. Test series are a huge wastage of time and money. Coaching instructors cant answer any conceptual question. Yet they have managed to trap candidates by cunningly creating an environment through brain washing advertisement,eyewashing discussion on online forums and worshipping toppers who can endorse their con business. I sincerely hope that govt bans for profit coaching shops in near future, following footstep of China.

Plus 100...i pray to God that govt takes action against all kind of coaching mafias(JEE UPSC ) . 


What they teach is not called education.. It's called mediocrity to rote learn

3.1k views

 No candidate can get through CSE by reading crap materials of coaching mafia”

But many people do clear the exam by reading vision PT365 or Mains 365. Many people do write tests. In fact they spend a lot of time improvising , taking feedback’s and coming up with better answers.

Most of the teachers are very well read, at least in New Delhi and after a point of time they may be bad teachers because they are unable to go down to the level of the students knowledge and start from a certain basic - not because they lack conceptual clarity!

Sometimes you may not get the right answers because probably you are not asking the right questions.

When you make a statement like that, you do not discredit selected candidates or the coaching, you just further the objective of putting people into some sort of skepticism and on a progressive path of nihilism.


That nothing can be done ,the exam can’t be prepared for,  we must sit back and play Russian roulette every year.

The truth is that there are only 761 seats and only 761 people will make it. And like In almost all walks of life, there will be an element of luck in success.

When you said books/notes/ test series are a waste of money by all means , you forget to add that “for people who do not read them.”

The time is obviously saved because they did not read them in the first place.

Being a liberal has its own disadvantage. Earlier I would not have countered such opinion because as some sort of liberal I would think that an extreme opinion like that should exist. But the last decade has shown that radical thoughts must be countered because while liberal views may make space for radical thoughts ,but radical thoughts have no space for other views.

Also, have you tried reading any of those notes ? Have you tried writing 10 or 12 tests and seen if it brings some changes / improvement in you?  That would require you to write about 30 hours of test writing and 500 pages in writing . If you study about 30 hours before a test preparing for it, you have studied 300 hours and that would be very exam oriented, and that you make something out of you.

Or you could rest back, relax and wait for someone to do the hard work, get successful and pounce upon them and find some pleasure in that.


ssver2,Joeyisthebestand14 otherslike this
4.3k views
@Neyawn I was not ready to have a midlife crisis now :(.


What have I done to cause it 🤭

3.6k views

Also please note that as moderator, I will not tolerate selected candidate bashing on this thread. I let that happen on the discuss forum, and everyone who was selected left because of such bashing. Then you have no good people and are left with a bunch of negative people. I have done this mistaken before because I thought I must tolerate intolerance and vehement criticism ( afterall it is the lifeblood of decmocracy ) 

This forum is for Civils preparation, and celebrates success in the exam. It also, unlike the outside world does not penalise or criticise failure. 

But I would also not let it become a place to penalise or criticise success. That has happened in the past and good people flee because they have less time and more things to do. The negative people take over and run amock and kill the forum. 

I have my inbox full of people who have flunked and I would like to talk to them today as it is October 2, a holiday and dont have the burden of other work. I can either do that or counter annual topper-coaching notes  teacher bashing. But I wont let this thread be inhospitable to people who have been successful. Seven years ago, we have a wonderful girl - her name was Tajasvani selected in the IPS - who had among the top 5 highest marks in Mains - but got IPS because of low interview score.

Looking back, I realise that some people mauled her just because

(a) In a media interview , she said that rural women could look up to her and realise that they can rise like men too, and 

(b) asked for inputs for rank improvement to get into IAS.

Some people who did not have the burden of writing Prelims or Mains, but merely call names sitting from the audience, mauled her because they felt she was a hypocrite and that she should say to the media that she is disturbed because of low interview marks and was a little disappointed with her rank.

She kinda broke down, and literally blamed me for not defending her then or banning such people - because back then I thought that freedom of speech means on a civil services preparation forum, people should be allowed to criticise the successful civil services aspirant on the very thread that is created to congratulate them . Won't let that happen again. 

ssver2,Auroraand24 otherslike this
4.2k views

@abc123 @mahi2501 This very platform is an outcome of a for-profit coaching mafia.

I don’t know why people are so against the coaching institutes. They are also hardworking people, trying to make a (mostly honest and almost all legal) living while benefitting students. 

If u see around u, everyone is trying to make u crave for their product, be it from a biscuit, chips company to apple to Mercedes. A lot many of their customers believe that their products make people’s lives better in some ways and over long run usually these very companies survive. 

Though i haven’t taken any official coaching except test series for Mains but have immensely benefitted by their study materials and many more free initiatives. Coaching institutes help those students as well who don’t have readily available guidance in their family or friend circle. They help students who haven’t had the best of education during their school and colleges to work hard and compete against the privileged. 

Coaching might be expensive for many but you have lots of information available to make an informed opinion. The coming up of a lot many coaching institutes has improved the freely available content for many who are preparing on their own. Be it free daily news analysis, explained topics on youtube, daily free MCQs or free all India mocks. You have coaching institutes making u available the strategies of multiple toppers, and lot many say they haven’t taken any coaching but many others state it has benefitted them. 

Though i feel that coaching institutes claiming toppers might be misleading but if u make impulse buying then u have lot many better marketers out there. 

On celebration part, i think we should celebrate UPSC success as well even though it is a national exam. Because it is story of a person who rose to the top against all odds. We should also note that such elaborate celebrations are almost always for people from very humble backgrounds.You will not see such celebration for a Delhi or Mumbai student topping. 

Though i agree that science definitely enlarges the pie and can have a greater impact on lives of people in long run so should be celebrated. But it is a long term process and no clear defined benchmark of success. For example, it is very difficult for people on mass scale to celebrate at this level the taking of an image of Black hole (though this is also a popular topic). However, as Indians we celebrate whole heartedly even the success of our Indian American scientists/ researchers who make it big eg. Abhijeet Banerjee. 

We also celebrated Neeraj Chopra’s gold, it is not going to make our lives any better, may be some loss as every other state and central government giving him crores is a diversion of diversion of public funds to private individuals. But it is necessary for a very important thing, ‘Hope’. It tells us that we are no less than others. It makes us feel that we are worthy of something, because we associate with that person in some ways. 

I think the hope of a better life and possibilities that the success of Shubham’s town/ village will inspire many more to dream big. 

THe high craze for this exam, also helps attract more talent for UPSC exam, which recruits for the top posts in Indian bureaucracy. I think this is definitely good for our people and nation. 


kohliwag,Kapiushonand12 otherslike this
2.7k views
@Neyawn Fully agreed to each and every word, and also those words which were probably left out due to your decency. And one more thing, people who clear the exam, most of them, have a very, very thick skin borne out of very deep and strong foundation of optimism, commitment and a sense of purpose. So, while bashers/critics/aalochaks think they are punching holes in their armour and success, on the contrary, they are making those people stronger. I am quite sure, if you talk the girl again, she will look back and say she became stronger after that. Whatever doesnt kill you, simply makes you stronger.    


sjerngal,THE_MECHANICand1 otherslike this
2.5k views

For all the coaching criticism and the love for traditional ways, ignoring how banning entire industries isn’t a good principle at all, I wonder do we even have a good education sector to take up the burden if coaching institutes were banned? 

During my JEE preparation days, I was initially a perfectionist, I decided that I’ll stay in school and enjoy my school life. Joined a coaching institute with classes in the evening. While the teachers at the institute weren’t the best, the one’s at school were almost insufferable. At best they could explain simple NCERT concepts, which people who are aware about JEE, isn’t enough. They garnered almost no joy, the environment was very rigid and uptight, almost no room for free thought. ‘This is the way we’ve done things, if you don’t follow, no marks’. I ultimately gave up on school by 11th end, scored ~62% and was nowhere in a good place regarding my JEE prep. The teachers at the institute were good, not subject experts but they gave their best. Always up for solving doubts, always wanting to explain things in innovative ways. They tried developing a curiosity about everything in our mind. One of the teachers was so lovely, he even gave us extra sessions at his own house. Certainly money wasn’t his only goal. 

For the next year, I joined a coaching in Kota, the Mecca of JEE. I had an entrance test prior in which I performed horribly. I was put in the last batch, however by some struggle, got permission to sit in one of the top batches till the reshuffling after the 1st test. Now, the original coaching institute had a class of ~30, this was a batch of more than 300 people. The first day I couldn’t find a seat and we had to adjust 5 people on a bench. I absolutely hated the ambience and felt trapped. But then the class started, and it was nothing like I’ve seen before. Through my life, teachers would teach and students would simply copy. Here the teacher came, wrote a question and asked everyone to solve. While I was still trying to work out what the question was, people started shouting answers. This was true for almost all the subjects there. The teaching was limited to explaining the basic concepts and then letting your mind run free. While it was rigorous and very demanding, it was fun. For possibly the 1st time in my life I had fun studying. The teachers used to talk about interesting concepts, made classes fun by their stories  and overall had a great environment in the classes. They recognised you even in a class of 300 when they were taking 2-3 batches per day. 

I’ve first hand seen how the industry is, the scores of cycles on the roads after classes ended. The lone mall I’ve been to in Kota used to have more space for cycle parking than the car parking. There were people from all over India. People from villages where there wasn’t any decent education facility, small towns, remote places. 

However, I have nothing but fond memories. We were a group of 3 best friends, only 1 made it through JEE but out of the other 2, one’s at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the other one cleared NDA and is currently serving. None of the coaching friends I know have bad things to say about them. 

India isn’t a country where you can follow ideals in any field.

I don’t think there was anything wrong with the video of the topper. I don’t think one person believing he can change the entire civil services is rational. I don’t think the coaching industry is harmful. To me, schools after a point offer nothing other than a means of socialisation. 

Even the UPSC coaching industry, it has helped thousands. Rajinder Nagar’s entire economy revolves around this. I feel particularly irked when people so easily jump up at extreme solutions.

While not wanting to be offensive to anyone, I internally hope that such people stay away from public services because they seem so devoid of rationality and practicality. The country doesn’t need supremely idealistic beings as it doesn’t need people devoid of morals. 

There are other fora available for chasing idealism which actually are much more effective than would be a place in the services. Today is 2nd October, the birth date of 2 great men from Indian History. Many people would argue that both of them chased a version of the world that was too idealistic and impractical and both paid for it with their lives. While their positive contributions needn’t be talked about for it’s been done enough, we ignore far too many flaws which would serve as a reminder why idealism is a futile concept. 

Newton981,discoFighterand8 otherslike this
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@Newton981 The high craze attracting more talent for UPSC exam is my exact problem!
The exam requires discipline, patience, memorizing ability, with above average intelligence (not genius) and anyone given they put some effort will have fair chances of clearing. So people who are capable of achieving much bigger are not needed to be here. Or let's say the exam is like that but once you clear you get to do a lot for public, it is a much idealistic view. In reality our bureaucratic structure is such that it does not let one make more meaningful contributions.  A service insider and a celebrated topper once made similar comments here, its not just mine.

I am sorry but scientific achievements go beyond a blackhole discovery and rocket launches. Could be a hybrid variety of plant or a practical advance in renewable energy sector and they touch lives directly. And when I say many other fields it is doctors, economists, teachers, lawyers, journalists and many more. But after being qualified to these posts also they feel incomplete and sit for this exam thinking some miracle power would let them do more things and that is all because of the undeserving hype.

I have seen people getting into research on learning processes and contributing to revamping content material in textbooks which potentially impact educational outcomes more. On the other side we have IAS focusing on outcomes like increasing enrolment ratios, ensuring attendance, and providing facilities in schools. The latter work does not revolutionize education nor addresses any deeper issues in the system. Both kind of works are needed. But the first kind needs genius and for the second kind, average but dedicated individual is enough.

I have read an interview of a neurosurgeon turned bureaucrat recounting his work experience only to confess, he could have achieved a lot as a medical practitioner. start searching you will find many such articles. 

We celebrated scientists also, athletes also yes. I am talking about the scale here, the encouragement those fields get are always less compared to the craze this exam gets. How many times you get to see youngsters passionately practicing in a filed or filing for patents and being encouraged by parents? but someone with Lakshmikant in hand or standing in a queue to a coaching center class? just compare.

The UPSC 'achievement' can be celebrated. But not like it is the top of any other game. Its high time real knowledge seeking take over the space. Because this field is not for the genius and talented. Forget media statements, my views are based on candid conversations made with those who are in the jobs.


THE_MECHANIC,
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