Civil Services Mains 2020 Results: In or Out ? Way ahead, gratitude and Pain
The Civils Mains result has been declared. This thread is for sharing your grief , joy , mixed feelings - absolutely anything and everything.
Hey fellow aspirants, I need some help.
I find it extremely difficult to follow monthly magazines. Initially I thought that it was probably one particular institute whose magazine I am finding difficult to grasp. But, I have tried quite a few including Forum's, and somehow feel that these magazines are not for me.
There seems to be too much information overload. And somehow , I always ALWAYS end up NOT COMPLETING ANY MAGAZINE. It is not that I dont read newspapers and rely solely on magazines, but I just find myself difficult to concentrate and spend hours on just one issue.
It read one page and by the time I reach the next one, I already forget what I read minutes ago.
IT is so demotivating everytime.
I sometimes decide not to go through any magazine, but thats when the FOMO hits really hard. Everyone is reading Monthlies, Yearlies and so on and here I am, not able to finish even a single document.
Please help.
Just tagging a few people here whose name I can recall at the moment. Others may also give in their opinons @SergioRamos @Arrokoth @Patootie @nerdfighter @DeekshitaP @Jammu .
Also, if there is any video/youtube alternative to these magazines, please suggest .
Thanks.Here’s a secret!You don’t need to read everything in monthly magazines.Pick and choose what you want to read. I would suggest doing them purely from a mains point of view. Maybe you could reflect on what you read and make one page notes with random points you can think of about a topic. That way, since you have engaged with the idea of the topic given in the monthly, you’d be able to remember it better. I don’t see the utility in chumma mugging up current affairs from the prelims point of view. It’s not in line with the prelims pattern post 2016. In any case, since you will do enough mocks, these trivia type things will get covered anyway. Word of advice, don’t do these things cover to cover.Remember, 250 words in mains. Enough understanding for prelims. This is what will sail you through.There is no need for FOMO. An average UPSC aspirant cannot even recollect 1 percent of the cumulative total they’ve read on the exam day. That is simply because of the volume that we read.Therefore, my suggestion would be to strictly limit what you study.Of course you may read if you have interest, and that will have some effect on your answers as well, but it almost entirely depends on how well you have internalised and predetermined what you are going to write about a specific issue. If you have just passively read it, it’s of no use whatsoever for the exam.
Therefore, my suggestions would be:
1. Don’t rote learn from a monthly. Instead, Rote learn from a Mains 365 for GS.
2. Don’t read too much about things that won’t come for Mains. And this is 50 percent of the magazine in most cases.
3. If you have enough content about something, skip left right and centre.
4. Do enough mocks to get over the fomo. Revise the mocks. And that too, just the bare minimum about things such as initiatives, space missions, missiles etc. The more you know about these things usually indicates that you have wasted more time on information that is unnecessary for clearing the exam.
5. UPSC aspirants usually have a lot of information/knowledge with them at the time of Mains. It is based on whatever fraction of it that they display that the marks are allotted. Therefore, it stands to reason that you need to maximise reading the things that you can replicate in the exam. Because anything you read beyond that is useless for the exam because the examiner won’t know about it.
6. Knowledge is never wasted. I still read up on things that interest me. It’s a bad habit when you have limited time and if your sole purpose is to clear the exam.
7. If you limit what you read, you’ll realise that the time you are spending reading rn is enough. Just that you need to strategise better.
8. For prelims, do places in news, organisations, reports, PT365 for environment. Cost benefit ratio is high usually. The game is usually won and lost basis your grip on static subjects, your concepts, and a whole dollop of sheer dumb luck.
One more querry about this , that portion which you left (as you are doing from mains and some random things may imp for pre do you read them when prelims come or just read PT 365 can you elaborate on this part)
I don’t do either. I go with what I know from mocks. If it’s important, it would’ve been covered in every mock test series by every institute. If it’s not, it’s probably some obscure thing that’s not worth the effort.
EiChan,PatootieHe’s not right but he’s not entirely wrong either, if I am to analyse it purely objectively.
1. It’s not a crime to design it like this. However, I do find it absurd that an interview qualified candidate in one year or a candidate who makes it in the list this year might not even be able to give mains next year. There is a great deal of uncertainty at every stage. Years are wasted because of this uncertainty. UPSC isn’t necessarily responsible for this. It’s the idea that people have that this exam is worth dropping multiple years for.
2. If you define time wasting as not contributing to the economy or significantly to society because of Prelims six months later, he’s right. But again, UPSC isn’t forcing anyone to do this. People choose to do it on their own volition.
3. His point is bang on if you calculate ROI in terms of whether you clear or not. Most of the people who give this exam leave it after many years because they failed. That is a reality. Once they fail, people are often left in a worse off position than they would have been in, (financially, emotionally) had they not given the exam. They will have become much more knowledgeable, but there is no bridge that automatically makes them employable in a field of their choice or liking. This is extremely sad, and does lead to a criminal waste of talent.
I’m not saying he is right or wrong. I hold completely different views on the fundamental basis on which ROI is calculated, and about what constitutes time waste. I think preparation contributes immensely to personal growth and this LinkedIn post doesn’t recognise that at all. It provides a very simple capitalist approach.
I don’t think his arguments carry any less value because he’s a corporate worker. It’s a publicly funded commission like he says, and I’m sure he pays a portion of the taxes he’s supposed to pay. :P
Like I said, I don’t agree with what he says, but I can completely understand why someone else might think like he does. UPSC isn’t responsible directly for a lot of this, but it is responsible for at least some of it.
@SergioRamos Perfectly said. To add to it a bit, the kind of social/class mobility the UPSC exam offers cannot be matched by any other mode of recruitment. And the same middle class, which has the concern of aspirants 'wasting' their prime years on an exam, sends their kids for IIT coachings from 6th standard onwards.
Comparing the age of 12 and 24 ? Lol. This mentality of moving up social mobility by just an exam need to be changed. Those who cant do anything great in their field, comes to UPSC. There havent been many civil servants who have done anything worth appraising. UPSC selection process itself is sham.
Jai Shree Ram !
TristanHarris,AJ_
The only criticism he seems to have (spread over 3 sub points) is the fact that the exam takes time, which while yes, he is right about, but so do other educational endeavours. A standard degree takes 3 years, a PhD takes 4-5 years, the ROI isn’t guaranteed with either. I feel with the whole debate about lateral entry, exams like UPSC are easy targets to build a narrative around. Plus govt v/s corporate mudslinging isn’t new either.
There is also one big loophole in UPSC. That is waste of talent. In this UPSC preparation, most of the people spend more time like 4-7 years. We learn lot of things administrative, ethical values etc. But in the end many face failure and shift to some other fields. It’s huge waste of talent. Government of India along with UPsC needs to study this and recruit for small administrative jobs into ministries. This can be based on number of attempts, mains written or interview attendance etc. This will really work according me 🙂
P.S. The process has its flaws and everyone who comes into it know the flaws and the associated risks beforehand. I am not saying the exam is perfect but at least it provides a semblance of fair opportunity.
He’s not right but he’s not entirely wrong either, if I am to analyse it purely objectively.
1. It’s not a crime to design it like this. However, I do find it absurd that an interview qualified candidate in one year or a candidate who makes it in the list this year might not even be able to give mains next year. There is a great deal of uncertainty at every stage. Years are wasted because of this uncertainty. UPSC isn’t necessarily responsible for this. It’s the idea that people have that this exam is worth dropping multiple years for.
2. If you define time wasting as not contributing to the economy or significantly to society because of Prelims six months later, he’s right. But again, UPSC isn’t forcing anyone to do this. People choose to do it on their own volition.
3. His point is bang on if you calculate ROI in terms of whether you clear or not. Most of the people who give this exam leave it after many years because they failed. That is a reality.
I’m not saying he is right or wrong. I hold completely different views on the fundamental basis on which ROI is calculated, and about what constitutes time waste. I think preparation contributes immensely to personal growth and this LinkedIn post doesn’t recognise that at all. It provides a very simple capitalist approach.
I don’t think his arguments carry any less value because he’s a corporate worker. It’s a publicly funded commission like he says, and I’m sure he pays a portion of the taxes he’s supposed to pay. :P
Like I said, I don’t agree with what he says, but I can completely understand why someone else might think like he does.
i do not agree with the uncertainty part, there is a fixed standard, yardstick, if you will, which, is associated with each step... those who understand the standards will continue to clear each step consistently.. the idea of uncertainity comes when we end up clearing one step luckily or with minimum efforts without understanding the associated standards, hence the probability to fail in the next attempt or stage increases and therefore we end up blaming the whole process..
There is a scientific method to it, some of us take more time to understand that method( This is where tyranny of merit comes into play) , i see no reason that a final score of 2 similar looking answer will have high standard deviation, of course the element of luck might differentiate a rank 1 from a rank 20, however reaching below a rank 100/150 or maybe 200 is a scientific process imo
@SergioRamos Perfectly said. To add to it a bit, the kind of social/class mobility the UPSC exam offers cannot be matched by any other mode of recruitment. And the same middle class, which has the concern of aspirants 'wasting' their prime years on an exam, sends their kids for IIT coachings from 6th standard onwards.
Comparing the age of 12 and 24 ? Lol. This mentality of moving up social mobility by just an exam need to be changed. Those who cant do anything great in their field, comes to UPSC. There havent been many civil servants who have done anything worth appraising. UPSC selection process itself is sham.
Bhai frankfurt school se ho kya?? humesha critical :P sry nerd joke
@babu_bisleri Bhai if it is such a sham, why are you wasting your 'productive' years here? No one has forced you to play the Russian roulette. Or maybe it is a case of sour grapes? Anyway up to you. Regarding 12 and 24, in one of the cases, there is an element of choice, in the other, you are just sacrificing someone's childhood for your ambitions. Which is one worse is for you to decide.P.S. The process has its flaws and everyone who comes into it know the flaws and the associated risks beforehand. I am not saying the exam is perfect but at least it provides a semblance of fair opportunity.
What else you could have done if not studying at 12 ? Some children prepare for KVPY NTSE Olympiad.No body do mechanics in class 6th. Alas how would an Indian understand the importance of Olympiad where the PM celebrates only 3 institute in top 200 despite having 1/6th of population. And most of the research work is copied only.
And why I am here ? I could not do anything great in my field, that is why I am here. :P Angoor hi nhi mujhe toh aam bhi khate hi milte hai.
Btw, your comment will be getting around 1K views. Out of those probably around 10 making into final list. General category me scene aur bura hai. ;/
Jai Shree Ram !
@SergioRamos Perfectly said. To add to it a bit, the kind of social/class mobility the UPSC exam offers cannot be matched by any other mode of recruitment. And the same middle class, which has the concern of aspirants 'wasting' their prime years on an exam, sends their kids for IIT coachings from 6th standard onwards.
Comparing the age of 12 and 24 ? Lol. This mentality of moving up social mobility by just an exam need to be changed. Those who cant do anything great in their field, comes to UPSC. There havent been many civil servants who have done anything worth appraising. UPSC selection process itself is sham.
Bhai frankfurt school se ho kya?? humesha critical :P sry nerd joke
hare ko hara aur lal ko lal hi bolta hun.
Jai Shree Ram !
i do not agree with the uncertainty part, there is a fixed standard, yardstick, if you will, which, is associated with each step... those who understand the standards will continue to clear each step consistently.. the idea of uncertainity comes when we end up clearing one step luckily or my minimum efforts without understanding the associated standards, hence the probability to fail in the next attempt or stage increases and therefore we end up blaming the whole process..
There is a scientific method to it, some of us take more time to understand that method( This is where tyranny of merit comes into play) , i see no reason that a final score of 2 similar looking answer will have high standard deviation, of course the element of luck might differentiate a rank 1 from a rank 20, however reaching below a rank 100 is a scientific process.
I’m sure there are a lot of benefits in our preparation if we truly believe this in our hearts. We can modify our strategy accordingly if we believe that the fault lies in our strategy alone.
However, I disagree with the fundamental premise that there is a scientific process that assures success. There are things you can do which maximise your chances. However, it is still uncertain to a very large extent.
The only criticism he seems to have (spread over 3 sub points) is the fact that the exam takes time, which while yes, he is right about, but so do other educational endeavours. A standard degree takes 3 years, a PhD takes 4-5 years, the ROI isn’t guaranteed with either. I feel with the whole debate about lateral entry, exams like UPSC are easy targets to build a narrative around. Plus govt v/s corporate mudslinging isn’t new either.
There is also one big loophole in UPSC. That is waste of talent. In this UPSC preparation, most of the people spend more time like 4-7 years. We learn lot of things administrative, ethical values etc. But in the end many face failure and shift to some other fields. It’s huge waste of talent. Government of India along with UPsC needs to study this and recruit for small administrative jobs into ministries. This can be based on number of attempts, mains written or interview attendance etc. This will really work according me 🙂
I’m not sure how useful or feasible that might be. What would you consider as small administrative jobs? Because recruitment to ministries also happens via ssc already, so to add to the bulk of bureaucracy doesn’t necessarily translate into more efficiency. Further can you clarify what you mean by a waste of talent?
He’s not right but he’s not entirely wrong either, if I am to analyse it purely objectively.
1. It’s not a crime to design it like this. However, I do find it absurd that an interview qualified candidate in one year or a candidate who makes it in the list this year might not even be able to give mains next year. There is a great deal of uncertainty at every stage. Years are wasted because of this uncertainty. UPSC isn’t necessarily responsible for this. It’s the idea that people have that this exam is worth dropping multiple years for.
2. If you define time wasting as not contributing to the economy or significantly to society because of Prelims six months later, he’s right. But again, UPSC isn’t forcing anyone to do this. People choose to do it on their own volition.
3. His point is bang on if you calculate ROI in terms of whether you clear or not. Most of the people who give this exam leave it after many years because they failed. That is a reality.
I’m not saying he is right or wrong. I hold completely different views on the fundamental basis on which ROI is calculated, and about what constitutes time waste. I think preparation contributes immensely to personal growth and this LinkedIn post doesn’t recognise that at all. It provides a very simple capitalist approach.
I don’t think his arguments carry any less value because he’s a corporate worker. It’s a publicly funded commission like he says, and I’m sure he pays a portion of the taxes he’s supposed to pay. :P
Like I said, I don’t agree with what he says, but I can completely understand why someone else might think like he does.
i do not agree with the uncertainty part, there is a fixed standard, yardstick, if you will, which, is associated with each step... those who understand the standards will continue to clear each step consistently.. the idea of uncertainity comes when we end up clearing one step luckily or my minimum efforts without understanding the associated standards, hence the probability to fail in the next attempt or stage increases and therefore we end up blaming the whole process..
There is a scientific method to it, some of us take more time to understand that method( This is where tyranny of merit comes into play) , i see no reason that a final score of 2 similar looking answer will have high standard deviation, of course the element of luck might differentiate a rank 1 from a rank 20, however reaching below a rank 100/150 or maybe 200 is a scientific process.
What is scientific in it ? Every evaluator different. Everyone's writing style is different. Coaching promotes bhed chal. Ohh yes this is what every bureaucrat gonna do in his career !!
Jai Shree Ram !
What do you all think about this?
Why do you think corporate workers like him target UPSC on a continuous basis? I have been seeing a lot of such posts lately.
He’s not right but he’s not entirely wrong either, if I am to analyse it purely objectively.
1. It’s not a crime to design it like this. However, I do find it absurd that an interview qualified candidate in one year or a candidate who makes it in the list this year might not even be able to give mains next year. There is a great deal of uncertainty at every stage. Years are wasted because of this uncertainty. UPSC isn’t necessarily responsible for this. It’s the idea that people have that this exam is worth dropping multiple years for.
2. If you define time wasting as not contributing to the economy or significantly to society because of Prelims six months later, he’s right. But again, UPSC isn’t forcing anyone to do this. People choose to do it on their own volition.
3. His point is bang on if you calculate ROI in terms of whether you clear or not. Most of the people who give this exam leave it after many years because they failed. That is a reality.
I’m not saying he is right or wrong. I hold completely different views on the fundamental basis on which ROI is calculated, and about what constitutes time waste. I think preparation contributes immensely to personal growth and this LinkedIn post doesn’t recognise that at all. It provides a very simple capitalist approach.
I don’t think his arguments carry any less value because he’s a corporate worker. It’s a publicly funded commission like he says, and I’m sure he pays a portion of the taxes he’s supposed to pay. :P
Like I said, I don’t agree with what he says, but I can completely understand why someone else might think like he does.
i do not agree with the uncertainty part, there is a fixed standard, yardstick, if you will, which, is associated with each step... those who understand the standards will continue to clear each step consistently.. the idea of uncertainity comes when we end up clearing one step luckily or my minimum efforts without understanding the associated standards, hence the probability to fail in the next attempt or stage increases and therefore we end up blaming the whole process..
There is a scientific method to it, some of us take more time to understand that method( This is where tyranny of merit comes into play) , i see no reason that a final score of 2 similar looking answer will have high standard deviation, of course the element of luck might differentiate a rank 1 from a rank 20, however reaching below a rank 100 is a scientific process.
I’m sure there are a lot of benefits in our preparation if we truly believe this in our hearts. We can modify our strategy accordingly if we believe that the fault lies in our strategy alone.
I disagree with the fundamental premise that there is a scientific process that assures success. There are things you can do which maximise your chances. However, it is still uncertain to a very large extent.
100% true.
Jai Shree Ram !
Flaws in exam design is certainly a concern. That aside, the problem seems to be just the sheer number of candidates. Some 5 lakh people are writing prelims and there itself the selection rate is 2%. The final selection rate is less than 0.2%. That's a crazy number. The difference in marks between rank 1 and 100 is not enough to reflect a real difference in talent.
There should be a survey capturing the reality of all these aspirants. I have seen so many people in the coaching that I went to for a few months whose preparation seemed to begin and end at putting LBSNAA wallpapers. They neither know nor care for what the exam actually demands - all they want is to become an IAS officer. They never even look at the syllabus. I'm sure those in Delhi have seen this happen so much more. How do these people stand a chance in front of actually motivated candidates who put in the work and figure out how and what to study? People who may not make it in the first attempt but actually study intelligently. They ruin prime years of their lives just adding to the 5 lakh statistic without ever reaching anywhere close to what is required.
The case with JEE is similar but at least there the candidates are 15 year olds pressured by their parents. Graduates making the decision to write this exam is different. It is not entirely their fault either. The coaching industry is shameless and ruthless. They've turned "Aspirant" into a stable identity that people seem to get complacent holding, instead of a temporary stage one is in on the way to something bigger. Besides the push by society towards the IAS stemming partly from a feudal mindset. Unemployment is of course a huge factor. How many people writing the exam had actually good jobs with a comparable pay available to them?
UPSC seems to have become a default option in the stream of life for so many people, much like engineering. It makes things worse for everyone. But do you guys think there is a short term solution to this that UPSC can take? The reasons seem to be largely structural to society.
What do you all think about this?
Why do you think corporate workers like him target UPSC on a continuous basis? I have been seeing a lot of such posts lately.
He’s not right but he’s not entirely wrong either, if I am to analyse it purely objectively.
1. It’s not a crime to design it like this. However, I do find it absurd that an interview qualified candidate in one year or a candidate who makes it in the list this year might not even be able to give mains next year. There is a great deal of uncertainty at every stage. Years are wasted because of this uncertainty. UPSC isn’t necessarily responsible for this. It’s the idea that people have that this exam is worth dropping multiple years for.
2. If you define time wasting as not contributing to the economy or significantly to society because of Prelims six months later, he’s right. But again, UPSC isn’t forcing anyone to do this. People choose to do it on their own volition.
3. His point is bang on if you calculate ROI in terms of whether you clear or not. Most of the people who give this exam leave it after many years because they failed. That is a reality.
I’m not saying he is right or wrong. I hold completely different views on the fundamental basis on which ROI is calculated, and about what constitutes time waste. I think preparation contributes immensely to personal growth and this LinkedIn post doesn’t recognise that at all. It provides a very simple capitalist approach.
I don’t think his arguments carry any less value because he’s a corporate worker. It’s a publicly funded commission like he says, and I’m sure he pays a portion of the taxes he’s supposed to pay. :P
Like I said, I don’t agree with what he says, but I can completely understand why someone else might think like he does.
i do not agree with the uncertainty part, there is a fixed standard, yardstick, if you will, which, is associated with each step... those who understand the standards will continue to clear each step consistently.. the idea of uncertainity comes when we end up clearing one step luckily or my minimum efforts without understanding the associated standards, hence the probability to fail in the next attempt or stage increases and therefore we end up blaming the whole process..
There is a scientific method to it, some of us take more time to understand that method( This is where tyranny of merit comes into play) , i see no reason that a final score of 2 similar looking answer will have high standard deviation, of course the element of luck might differentiate a rank 1 from a rank 20, however reaching below a rank 100 is a scientific process.
I’m sure there are a lot of benefits in our preparation if we truly believe this in our hearts. We can modify our strategy accordingly if we believe that the fault lies in our strategy alone.
I disagree with the fundamental premise that there is a scientific process that assures success. There are things you can do which maximise your chances. However, it is still uncertain to a very large extent.
even our lives have no guarantee but we still persist to turn odds in our favour...UPSC is no different, there is no guarantee ofcourse , but understanding and working on odds is science in itself, all of us know what we lack, scientific approach requires us to work on it.
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