Civil Services Mains 2020 Results: In or Out ? Way ahead, gratitude and Pain
The Civils Mains result has been declared. This thread is for sharing your grief , joy , mixed feelings - absolutely anything and everything.
EiChan,Sedate
@DeekshitaP I mean to say in the preparation our personalities mould to suit for serving the people. But we end up in some unsuitable jobs which are entirely different from what we have learnt in last 5 years. Small administrative jobs means not clerical jobs, but the ones assisting in governance. Like suppose there is wide knowledge that we gain through optionals, GS etc, this can be used by govt in some way. Anyway ideas are easy in theory but difficult to implement. May be I am wrong with some of my views. It’s just some idea in my mind 🙂
Hey nothing wrong with your views, just that i had different ones :p clerical jobs also assist in governance if you think about it. A section officer also deals with people and assists group A officers. I think this feeling that we can only work for society as an IAS is flawed. It negates the work that people in other developmental and policy organisations end up doing. A doctor and a teacher also work for people. Moreover don’t you feel it’s a highly limiting conception of our own selves when we believe that the only good work we can produce is in a niche job that only a few gain. I’m not trying to negate the idea of working for people within the govt itself, but don’t limit yourself to that conception
"And why I am here? I could not do anything great in my field, that is why I am here" - Going by this, you do accept that exam provides some respect which a regular corporate job won't. Otherwise even you would agree that with a degree from a top-tier college, you could earn much more than what a civil servant would earn.
Regarding 10/1000, wo to har jagah hai India me. IITs me bhi there are 10 lakh applicants for 10000 seats. With the population that we have, competition is bound to be there.
The exam process is certainly not perfect but it is at least fair.
Anyway, let's just agree to disagree on the issue.
@DeekshitaP I do accept that every role has some functionality in the society. But my view is that efficient use of talent and skills which we learn. Imagine a doctor who have done specialisation end up in doing as nursing activities due to lack of opportunity 😟
I 100% agree that talent should be utilised, especially when it is honed with so much time and effort. But I’m not sure how well your example translates into the governance paradigm. The things we learn as part of this exam are not specialised knowledge per se like that of a doctor which cannot be replicated by other easily, or translated into other fields. It is this very reason than an engineer, doctor, social science graduate all stand the chance to end up on the list
kohliwag,TambourineMan
Flaws in exam design is certainly a concern. That aside, the problem seems to be just the sheer number of candidates. Some 5 lakh people are writing prelims and there itself the selection rate is 2%. The final selection rate is less than 0.2%. That's a crazy number. The difference in marks between rank 1 and 100 is not enough to reflect a real difference in talent.
There should be a survey capturing the reality of all these aspirants. I have seen so many people in the coaching that I went to for a few months whose preparation seemed to begin and end at putting LBSNAA wallpapers. They neither know nor care for what the exam actually demands - all they want is to become an IAS officer. They never even look at the syllabus. I'm sure those in Delhi have seen this happen so much more. How do these people stand a chance in front of actually motivated candidates who put in the work and figure out how and what to study? People who may not make it in the first attempt but actually study intelligently. They ruin prime years of their lives just adding to the 5 lakh statistic without ever reaching anywhere close to what is required.
The case with JEE is similar but at least there the candidates are 15 year olds pressured by their parents. Graduates making the decision to write this exam is different. It is not entirely their fault either. The coaching industry is shameless and ruthless. They've turned "Aspirant" into a stable identity that people seem to get complacent holding, instead of a temporary stage one is in on the way to something bigger. Besides the push by society towards the IAS stemming partly from a feudal mindset. Unemployment is of course a huge factor. How many people writing the exam had actually good jobs with a comparable pay available to them?
UPSC seems to have become a default option in the stream of life for so many people, much like engineering. It makes things worse for everyone. But do you guys think there is a short term solution to this that UPSC can take? The reasons seem to be largely structural to society.
True. In fact majority of aspirants (non serious ones) romanticize the career of a civil servant. Just see YouTube, it is flooded with "royal entry" type videos with huge number of views.
@AzadHindFauz I was actually searching for posts like these. Would it be possible for you to send them to me on personal chat as and when you come across them?Edit, my opinion: The assumption of bonafides/malafides of the poster aside, I would tend to agree that the amount of human resource that goes into clearly this examination is a humongous drain. But the reward ratio is largely (sometimes assumed) so high that people are willing to make that trade-off. It is the golden escalator of social mobility.To actually get weight off of this escalator would require easier switching options to other sectors, because after a point a lot of people just find themselves stuck with no prospects in other places.It may also mean a structural change in the number of avenues that are usually available (or desirable) for middle class kids to earn their living and respect.None of these are short term, easily implementable solutions. But I personally don't see the government exams craze dying down anytime soon if these aren't worked upon.At this point, the option of an aspirant deciding on further attempts are between a shot at glory or the depth of ignominy. Untill this changes, these situation would continue.
Haha, what are you going to do with such posts?
Will send you!
Arrokoth,
What do you all think about this?
Why do you think corporate workers like him target UPSC on a continuous basis? I have been seeing a lot of such posts lately.
Dont think anything. Stop looking at such posts and dont spill over any anxiety you got into others(this forum specifically) and bring an unnecessary discussion at this hour, can disturb mental health of people here. I could have simply ignored your post and not read it, but posting this as a a request for others also not to put unnecessary things
Those things dont matter now, everybody who has signed up for exam already face a daunting task of clearing it. Dont need additional burden to take it on.
What do you all think about this?
Why do you think corporate workers like him target UPSC on a continuous basis? I have been seeing a lot of such posts lately.
TL;DR
This kind of mudslinging is nothing new, there's always been friction between corporate and public sector, it's just that it's more out in the open these days because of the present government's inclination towards more corporatisation. IMO both sides have fair points, both are equally important for the country. Without good governance, big corporates can't do sh*t, and without a robust private sector, a nation can't grow.
My two cents - there's some truth there between the non-sensical musings of this gentleman. With only 800-odd making it to the list, many of whom will appear again, there's no doubt about it that this exam ruins a lot of careers. I have personally wasted 2 years of my life when I could've easily joined a job as my college provided enough opportunities. Most of my friends did, and all of them have already got raises. But, the thing is, no one forcedme to do it, UPSC didn't send out a special letter inviting me to prepare. And it's sheer hypocrisy to slam the civil servants on one hand and sneakily want to join them through lateral entry on the other.
We can't deny that there's a lot of subjectivity and uncertainty in the exam process, and there's no guarantee that those who make it are absolutely suited to the job. We see civil servants with such great ethics scores involved in corruption. But this process is the best we've got which ensuresmostof the people who clear are actually going to benefit the society and the country.
The problem is once you've wasted 3+ years then you have to start from the absolute bottom in the corporate ladder unless you are exceptionally talented or have great connections. We do gain a lot from the preparation but that knowledge has no utility in 99 out of 100 job openings. As for the competition, we can't really do anything about it since with our population there's going to be intense competition for any half-decent job but the difference in JEE/NEET and UPSC is there's still a lot of scope even if one is unsuccessful in college entrance exams.
End of rant.
Let me write my perspective on this on going topic (wastage of human resource in CSE preparation)
According to me, there are three types of UPSC CSE aspirants:
A-type: Highly qualified, dedicated, hardworking people ( such individuals would not be more than 5K, i think)
B-type: Average kind but trying their best (~ 20-30K people)
C-type: Crowd
B-type people always keep backup in mind and due to knowledge gained through CSE preparation they are mostly able to secure good back-up job as well. So CSE preparation is giving them good ROI.
C-type people does not deserve any discussion as far as CSE is concerned. They are just doing time-pass and fooling their families.
Now, let's come to A-type people, these aspirants sacrifice their "तन -मन -धन " for CSE preparation. It is also seen in their progress in Exam. Most of the A-type aspirants qualify pre many times and at least give 1 Interview during their CSE preparation. Some of them qualify (high ROI) but many can not even after giving 3-4 interviews (seems very less or zero ROI).
Most of these A-type people have already left very good career for the CSE preparation. So they do not give importance to other govt jobs for back-up. And due to incremental success in various stages of exam (pre-mains-interview), they keep on giving attempts after attempts and the loop continues until their last attempt.
These A-type failed aspirants are the real concern about wastage of excellent human resource. Govt/UPSC has already taken some steps to accommodate interview-failed candidates(for ex- SAI, IFSCA etc) - good for last attempters. UPSC has also started the practice of publicly disclosing the details of interview-failed candidates. Though these steps have not yielded desired results yet and there is a need to accommodate most of the A-typers in the Governance process. But let me assure you these A-typers can easily (or with some effort) go back to corporate. Or those who just want a career in public service, have very good expertise to excel in the fields such as Politics, NGOs, Social entrepreneurship etc. Or if there is no ego issue, can certainly crack state psc exams. So in the end these A-typers also get some ROI out of CSE preparation.
Above write-up is not for those A-typers who are genius, convent-educated, who had planned their preparation from school times etc (they will mostly succeed). This write-up is for the A-typers who have vulnerabilities but there is no lack of "patience", "dedication" and "perseverance" in their entire CSE preparation.
Let me write my perspective on this on going topic (wastage of human resource in CSE preparation)
According to me, there are three types of UPSC CSE aspirants:
A-type: Highly qualified, dedicated, hardworking people ( such individuals would not be more than 5K, i think)
B-type: Average kind but trying their best (~ 20-30K people)
C-type: Crowd
B-type people always keep backup in mind and due to knowledge gained through CSE preparation they are mostly able to secure good back-up job as well. So CSE preparation is giving them good ROI.
C-type people does not deserve any discussion as far as CSE is concerned. They are just doing time-pass and fooling their families.
Now, let's come to A-type people, these aspirants sacrifice their "तन -मन -धन " for CSE preparation. It is also seen in their progress in Exam. Most of the A-type aspirants qualify pre many times and at least give 1 Interview during their CSE preparation. Some of them qualify (high ROI) but many can not even after giving 3-4 interviews (seems very less or zero ROI).
Most of these A-type people have already left very good career for the CSE preparation. So they do not give importance to other govt jobs for back-up. And due to incremental success in various stages of exam (pre-mains-interview), they keep on giving attempts after attempts and the loop continues until their last attempt.
These A-type failed aspirants are the real concern about wastage of excellent human resource. Govt/UPSC has already taken some steps to accommodate interview-failed candidates(for ex- SAI, IFSCA etc) - good for last attempters. UPSC has also started the practice of publicly disclosing the details of interview-failed candidates. Though these steps have not yielded desired results yet and there is a need to accommodate most of the A-typers in the Governance process. But let me assure you these A-typers can easily (or with some effort) go back to corporate. Or those who just want a career in public service, have very good expertise to excel in the fields such as Politics, NGOs, Social entrepreneurship etc. Or if there is no ego issue, can certainly crack state psc exams. So in the end these A-typers also get some ROI out of CSE preparation.
Above write-up is not for those A-typers who are genius, convent-educated, who had planned their preparation from school times etc (they will mostly succeed). This write-up is for the A-typers who have vulnerabilities but there is no lack of "patience", "dedication" and "perseverance" in their entire CSE preparation.
Thanks for writing this. Couldn't agree more!
The UPSC crowd does need some perspective. Out of the 10 lakh appearing forms, only 5 lakhs give the PT in the 1st place. Out of the 5 lakh, there are hardly 50k serious students.
The rest 4.5 lakh crowd is non-serious herd who are attracted by the glamour of an IAS, the tag of an Aspirant(In North Indian middle-class households, it holds a lot of value, shaadiyan ho jaati hain bas prep. ke naam pe), or sometimes forced into prep by rich parents thinking that coaching jaega, delhi me rahega, maybe padh hi le. Since they have a lot of money, 5-6 lakh is a gamble which successful, can yield amazing results. And another category is of the people who do not understand the gravity of this exam and after reading lucent GK, they are like lets try, Kyaa pata kuch ho hi jaaye(lol wtf).
4.5 lakh sounds a big number, but put into perspective, it really is a small percentage of Indian youth population.
So, if we calculate 50k serious fellas, out of whom 800 on avg. selected, the selection rate does not look that scary. Further add the state PSC also as most apply for that too, around 7-8k seats, other exams like GATE, IES, IFOS, RBI grade B, NABARD, SSC CGL, SEBI etc, around 90% of the 50k do land some good jobs. Itne bure haal bhi ni hain UPSC failed serious aspirants ke. :P
Just like every JEE aspirant preparing does not get IIT, but if has worked hard, will land a decent college. Similarly, Serious students preparing for UPSC, do land good jobs.
On a lighter note -
1. Will pvt sector be able to accomodate all these people? At least upsc is keeping them oriented. What will they do if there is nothing to do? If nothing at all, they are getting better informed. (This is for the C category as per above post)
2. Agri underemployment is responsible for many more lakhs who are idle so to say. That is also human resource. Only upsc prep crowd is not 'talent'.
3. Exam flaws is a separate issue. People coming in lakhs here is a separate issue. I think the person in the video is genuinely misinformed. And that's ok. Pvt sector ppl in India view candidates preparing for upsc/other exams in that way. Even wrt startups this view was prevalent earlier.
4. Rasta kharaab hai, toh chalna toh nahi chodenge. Hume pata hai gadde hai, toh we will avoid them that's in our hands. Serious candidates know and account for the exam deficiency in their prep.
5. Coaching/YouTube videos misinforming aspirants - after one exam cycle generally the reality strikes. It's quite difficult to sustain on this influence for 4-5 years.
Most criticism against this exam and the system it creates stems from the belief that business or management practices are the best. But these practices have evolved keeping their ultimate goal as increasing efficiency. Ultimate goal of civil services is public service. Any changes made should preserve this core.
Exactly. And this efficiency comes with exclusion(those who can pay let the business practice run efficiently). Whilst a public office should work for those excluded in the first place. Although the reality is different but the idea remains the same.
Most criticism against this exam and the system it creates stems from the belief that business or management practices are the best. But these practices have evolved keeping their ultimate goal as increasing efficiency. Ultimate goal of civil services is public service. Any changes made should preserve this core.
That's a very narrow view of it I think. If your argument holds true, then atleast compromising on efficiency for public service should've given us pretty good results in that domain. A large movement of people from BPL to middle class happened after liberalisation. It has taken the govt 2 decades to still finish the BharatNet scheme...Jio has taken cheap internet to even rural India in 4 years - internet penetration has doubled to 70 cr b/w 2015-20. India stack, the brainchild of pvt sector is what is powering UPI ,OCEN, toll pay, Account Aggregator,etc.
Efficiency & public service aren't exclusionary in natureand if you see the working of govt sector departments you will notice that 'public service' is used as a garb for ineffiency more often than not. Take a visit to BSNL or SBI for that matter. There is no doubt that the govt can learn a few things from pvt sector as far as project execution or service delivery is concerned (will save both public money & time). However, this can be done by keeping 'public service/welfare' as priority whenever there's conflict (which ain't that frequent).
West Bengal and Odisha related material for CSE 2020 Interview
WB_INTERVIEW_MATERIAL_FILE.pdfODISHA_INTERVIEW_MATERIAL_FILE.pdf
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