Civil Services Mains 2020 Results: In or Out ? Way ahead, gratitude and Pain
The Civils Mains result has been declared. This thread is for sharing your grief , joy , mixed feelings - absolutely anything and everything.
I hope people realise that deleted comments aren't that deletedi dont believe you
Neither do I !
;)
NOLEisGOAT,
Friends, just wanted to quickly plugin this interview of Mr Iqbal Singh Chahal, who is managing the Bombay Municipal Corporation right now, and is one of the reason for everything right (or wrong) happening in this city regarding covid.
Will urge to watch this interview.
For me, he seemed like an able adminstrator, a well prepared officer to face media scrutiny, and an inspiration to study little extra to convert that khayaali pulaao dreams into reality.
Saw this few days ago. Felt thrilled. What an amazing man! Taking the challenge head on. Even checked with some people in mumbai to know that most of things he said are being implemented very efficiently.
12432TrivendrumRajdhani,these noble aspirants with godly powers can also work for 18 hours a day. please spare us mortals their comparison, if we compare ourselves with them we may shrink and shrivel like fallen leaves. anyways this idea about corruption was the least important thing occupying my brain till i came across it on the platform. but on deeper thought i wont do corruption not because i am inspired by some noble ideas, but simply because it's not worth the hassle. i dont want to be a paranoid losing his sleep on hearing police sirens. as simple as that. also i have come to value minimalist way of life and more than money my thoughts are troubled with existential questions. i dont see any point in pursuit of money. There's a study that says that beyond a point money loses its value, it stops adding any value to your life.
anyways for the sake of bakar god created adam god created eve apparently in his own pure image....and what was their first act
to steal
also , a great man once said i hate purity , i hate goodness, i want no virtue to exist. i want everyone to be corrupt to the bones. No this great man didnt write the holy bible for he was too unholy
Johnny_Distracted,per capita gdp of korea 31k USD, for india its 2k USD. what this data points to is not indian civil servants being overpaid but general population being too poor aka inequality , as far as i can infer.Just read the whole justifying corruption stuff and this is so fun. :D Trust me, I can't stop smiling. Someone mentioned salaries. Just throwing in some data from an ex civil servant about the LOW salaries of a Indian civil servant. https://qr.ae/pGtnnb So damn low. I feel bad for the officers in my city, may be they need help. And mind you these numbers do not include the ridiculous amount of power differential Indian civil servants have with their western counterparts. And the social status differential.
Ram ji please kripa karo apne desh pe thodi to, saari sadbudhi satyug ke liye hi thi kya!
Just went through that buffoon Awdhesh Singh's answer trying to make a point that Indian Civil servants salaries are higher than their American counterparts adjusted for perks, CTC and PPP using some charts and calculations.
Anyone with basic arithmetic proficiency can see how he errs in his calculations in his answers. (How he arrives at 300000$ figure for top salary of Indian CS is mind boggling!?).
Anyway, it's laughable on part of such a seasoned bureaucrat to even think of such anomaly (in American and Indian Govt salaries) in first place, but he actually goes on and makes a buffoonery of himself making wrong calculations to justify his point.
Anyway, the debate here was not to justify corruption per se but to have a debate on aspects of it.
And no debate can take place unless you have two sides to put their arguments henceforth.
Are waah boss ab Awadesh buffon ho gaye, thodi der pehle tak to state ki legitimacy vagarah sambhal rahe the, chalo leave buffon to hai. This world bank study is also behaving similarly and adding an infographic from that study here.
In my understanding, The comparison has to be in the ratio right? My Family income with a family of 4 is one lakh rupees and elder brother gets 70k as pocket money. Rest all 3 get 10k. The ratio of elder brother's pocket money to family income is 7:10. My aunt in mumbai has a family income of 12 lakh rupees with family of 4. Elder brother their gets 3 lakhs as pocket money. The ratio of elder brother pocket money here to family income is 1:4. Now I cant' say that the my elder brother is not overpaid, its just my family being poor. One has to see things in context for every country to make it comparable. Please correct me if I am reading the data wrong.
Yes, you are interpreting the data wrongly on many levels.
It's the pay disparity between Govt sector and the equivalent jobs in private sector is what gives rise to corruption.
Dionysus,Johnny_Distracted@Patootie Can the system become honest.Todays wealthy have their wealth because of biased decision making of govt of past.For example,rajput caste in bihar owns a lot of land .They all got the land because british made them the zamindar.Kurmi caste in bihar prospered because ranjit don made a lot of kurmis doctors, engineers,job holders by other means.Todays upper caste prospered because they discriminated against backward castes.A person fromdelhi has much better access to higher education than a person of bihar,even if they score same marks in JEE or NEET.Can you call that corruption?
I'd call that injustice, and all injustice is corruption. I don't see the system becoming honest, not in my lifetime. But I'd never say never. :)
KV17,per capita gdp of korea 31k USD, for india its 2k USD. what this data points to is not indian civil servants being overpaid but general population being too poor aka inequality , as far as i can infer.Just read the whole justifying corruption stuff and this is so fun. :D Trust me, I can't stop smiling. Someone mentioned salaries. Just throwing in some data from an ex civil servant about the LOW salaries of a Indian civil servant. https://qr.ae/pGtnnb So damn low. I feel bad for the officers in my city, may be they need help. And mind you these numbers do not include the ridiculous amount of power differential Indian civil servants have with their western counterparts. And the social status differential.
Ram ji please kripa karo apne desh pe thodi to, saari sadbudhi satyug ke liye hi thi kya!
Just went through that buffoon Awdhesh Singh's answer trying to make a point that Indian Civil servants salaries are higher than their American counterparts adjusted for perks, CTC and PPP using some charts and calculations.
Anyone with basic arithmetic proficiency can see how he errs in his calculations in his answers. (How he arrives at 300000$ figure for top salary of Indian CS is mind boggling!?).
Anyway, it's laughable on part of such a seasoned bureaucrat to even think of such anomaly (in American and Indian Govt salaries) in first place, but he actually goes on and makes a buffoonery of himself making wrong calculations to justify his point.
Anyway, the debate here was not to justify corruption per se but to have a debate on aspects of it.
And no debate can take place unless you have two sides to put their arguments henceforth.
Are waah boss ab Awadesh buffon ho gaye, thodi der pehle tak to state ki legitimacy vagarah sambhal rahe the, chalo leave buffon to hai. This world bank study is also behaving similarly and adding an infographic from that study here.
In my understanding, The comparison has to be in the ratio right? My Family income with a family of 4 is one lakh rupees and elder brother gets 70k as pocket money. Rest all 3 get 10k. The ratio of elder brother's pocket money to family income is 7:10. My aunt in mumbai has a family income of 12 lakh rupees with family of 4. Elder brother their gets 3 lakhs as pocket money. The ratio of elder brother pocket money here to family income is 1:4. Now I cant' say that the my elder brother is not overpaid, its just my family being poor. One has to see things in context for every country to make it comparable. Please correct me if I am reading the data wrong.
Yes, you are interpreting the data wrongly on many levels.
It's the pay disparity between Govt sector and the equivalent jobs in private sector is what gives rise to corruption.
Maafi sarkaar! May the god of parity bless us and this country!
(Mere arguments khatam tata bye bye good bye )
thesleepyhead,
AJ_,
This isn’t a firm belief, just want to ask people’s views on this.I feel that our society can’t function without corruption. Corruption has many hues to it, like someone mentioned about the ill practices in large companies, call it profiteering, crony capitalism, bribery, they’re all forms of corruption. I’ve first hand seen what opportunities lie in the government sector to make money, seen many earn a lot, seen some earn just enough. Some are ‘ethical’ in their demands, some are brutal.Since we’re talking about the top echelons of government service, I’ll confine my comments to this strata.Nearly all postings in government service have a cost [no empirical data to confirm this, simply my observations because out of the many cases I’ve seen, barring 3-4, I’m yet to see a posting which wasn’t given in lieu for money or as a punishment(ignoring early postings in IAS, IPS, IRS, State Admin, Police etc.].Before I jumped into UPSC preparation, I was about to start my training for a job which was absolutely tension free, enjoyable, a lot of free time, a lot of travel and the salary growth was phenomenal (₹1.5 lakhs/ month at joining and after 6-ish years, around ₹7-8 lakhs/month). I thought a lot about what I really wanted from life. Flashy cars, clothes, gadgets or giving something back to the society.Salary in Govt. services is just about okay if you compare to what I left behind. I won’t be able to drive any German beauties, I wouldn’t wear expensive watches,I wouldn’t stay at posh hotels. But I realised, I don’t need it. Come to think of it, you can easily lead a comfortable life if you’re able to control your desires. So yeah, personally I’m convinced that I would be very comfortable with what’s on offer.Now, what we’re pursuing, it offers us immense opportunity to bring about changes. Not like ‘duniya hi hila denge’ type, but realistically, wherever you’re posted, you’ll have so much potential to work with. That excites me and I suppose it’s the same for everyone else too.ButThe reality is that you’re part of a system. A system which won’t hesitate in chucking you out if you are a rebel nut in the vast array of gears. To get and remain at good postings, you need to grease hands of the higher ups (again, very rare exceptions do exist). To do good work you have to remain at good postings.What I personally believe is this, if you have your heart in the right place, you’d know what to do. Temptation is an alluring slope but it is a slope nonetheless. If the corruption you indulge in doesn’t at large bring you any ‘personal’ gains, you’re doing it to remain a part of the system, continue doing good work, I would say that it’s justifiable in the grand scheme of things.Not saying that you necessarily have to participate in corruption but a lot of times you would have to turn a blind eye. I’m not saying this as a firmly established principle but just saying that I don’t have a hard stance that I won’t indulge in any corruption or I would definitely indulge in corruption.I’m only clear on one count, I personally am not going to take/ use any sort of illegitimately earned gains.Would love to have some learned opinions on this.
One comment which started with realism but unfortunately veered away towards idealism towards the end.
What pains me is the spirit of total rejection of corruption as a concept in a country which lies so low on integrity parameters with all wings of democracy and otherwise taking dives of corruption day in and day out.
And the same hypocrisy of some 'uber honest aspirants' here and of the society in general, actually, amuses me!
man is selfish, selfseeking, avaricious by nature. what was hobbes prescription to deal with it? did he endeavour to change the very nature of men? no. that's impossible, but what can be done is creating a system of checks and balances that atleast eliminates the worst form of corruption the type that costs lives, while benign form of corruption is allowed to exist. Even in society we have brothels and intoxicants , despite all religion and every learned man considering them evil. Follow aristotle- golden mean is the golden rule. Dont be plato, his idealism and holy ideas came to be used to justify fascism.
"benign form of corruption is allowed to exist"
Thank you.
Johnny_Distracted,
man is selfish, selfseeking, avaricious by nature. what was hobbes prescription to deal with it? did he endeavour to change the very nature of men? no. that's impossible, but what can be done is creating a system of checks and balances that atleast eliminates the worst form of corruption the type that costs lives, while benign form of corruption is allowed to exist. Even in society we have brothels and intoxicants , despite all religion and every learned man considering them evil. Follow aristotle- golden mean is the golden rule. Dont be plato, his idealism and holy ideas came to be used to justify fascism.
Immoral does not equal illegal.
So, here's the cheatsheet on corruption (no pun intended) deduced after this series of dialectics:
1. Corruption cannot be eliminated from our society, it can only be reduced or harmlessly transmuted.
Comment: Whenever there is sovereign power (be it democracy of US or India, or autocracy of Saudi or China), there will always be individuals at the top and the brokers who, due to very beastly nature of man, will resort to corruption. That notion of sovereign power changes from time and place (e.g. Saheb and bada babu duo in a Certificate office are de facto sovereigns in matter of issuing certificates)
2. In order to reduce corruption, we must study the core reasons causing corruption and try practical fixes instead of acting as epitome of integrity and repeat same old cures which are obviously not working on the ground.
e.g. Pay disparity wrt Priavte sector is indeed an issue which fuels corruption in Govt sector employees, especially at the lower end jobs. And increasing salary will actually help inreducingcorruption amongsome %of workforce.
Same way, harsher punishments must be ensured for acts of corruption, more so in higher echelons of the ladder.
Then, Something must be done to root out the elephant in the room, the extent of black money in elections which is a big fountainhead of corruption in India.
Same way, technology can be employed in a massive manner to cut corruption. Case studies of IRCTC ticket booking and online passport making process offer much hope.
3. Corruption is a very complex issue which encompasses historical injustices, generational inequality, subtle forms of daily corruption in kind or cash. We should give up our hallowed sense of righteousness and propensity to seek solutions in black and white like a non sensical moron.
Many developed economies of today which were at similar development stage as India is now (e.g. USA in 1910s and 20s) underwent the similar stage of corruption in jobs, crony capitalism, etc. You can refer to "The Billionaire Raj" by James Crabtree on this topic.
Some may also argue that overall poverty levels (and ensuing actual inequality or perceived sense of future inequality) and underdeveloped state of the economy is the major contributor to corruption, especially at lower levels - which actually pinches the common man in a more visible manner.
It was nice interacting, fellas, and going through your impassioned raw idealistic arguments as well as the grounded realistic ones. What else is needed for a person in quarantine needing some break from monotony of Netflix and chilling.
Shubh Ratri.
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