Civil Services Mains 2020 Results: In or Out ? Way ahead, gratitude and Pain
The Civils Mains result has been declared. This thread is for sharing your grief , joy , mixed feelings - absolutely anything and everything.
I wish to know@Sherkhan1428 and others, what keeps you guys moving ? Leave aside "desh ka bhalai" for a moment; Do you realize if you had pursued a career according to your degree of graduation, you would have been in a much better position? Even if you clear the exam, you would be an "Uncle" in your batch with limited career growth due to time-bound promotions etc.. I don't intend to discourage anyone, but these thoughts keep assaulting me every second, hence the query.
thepolicydreamer,@SergioRamos happens after tabs count over 99
On the day of mains result, I was hurting because I didn't get in and went for a walk, I met an acquaintance on the way who happens to be from SC category, she was delighted on her mains success and rightfully so but then she went on for about 5 mins on how noone from her library managed to clear mains except her and how first attempt students are flocking her for tips and she was so so smug about the fact that only she qualified. I never had any bitterness about reservations prior to that but that day I felt angry and jealous of her because she comes from a much better socio economic background than me but still she had to score way lesser than me for the exact same exam with even more resources than I could afford. So, more often than not the anger of UR category students isn't really towards the whole community but it's the personal experiences and severe frustration of extremely high competition for UR seats where not so genius students like me feel like it's unattainable.
Thank you for sharing your experience. And I'm sorry you had to go through that.
That just seems like bad behaviour. To be so smug like you said, especially while talking to someone who is hurting at that moment. I've been fortunate enough to never come across anyone like that.
I am guessing you would never have felt any negative feelings if that person weren't so obnoxious about her success and/or if she weren't so privileged economically... the former is just a personal failing and the latter a collateral deficiency of our affirmative action system. It gives a lot to think about, so thank you again. :) and all the best for this year!
@SergioRamos happens after tabs count over 99
you are indeed thinking in memes
@NOLEisGOAT I really do want to understand and empathize. All our discussion about the social, historical, political dimensions of the issue is going to be useless if people are feeling angry and hurt, because no one can discuss things rationally in that state. The emotional wounds, both perceived and real, have to be healed first. Or at least acknowledged. And that can't be done if someone feels like they aren't heard and understood.
I find this "just saying what I feel, don't pounce on me" or "if you know what i mean" variety of comments very irritating, but now I'm seeing that it comes from a very real sense of feeling boxed into a corner. In some spaces there is no place for people to honestly express their feelings of hurt and bitterness, as we (myself included) may have ended up demonstrating here. That's why it comes out in veiled ways. If we don't like the veil, it's up to us to be willing to engage sincerely with what's behind it. And that requires some maturity on our part - genuinely trying to understand someone's bitterness, even if I feel it is not justified, will only help me grow as a person. It is not the equivalent of accepting an anti-reservation stance. There has to be space for us to engage with each other as humans even while we disagree politically.
@SunnyParashar some responses to your comment got a bit too personal, I want to apologize for my part in it. I hope some other time we can have a sensitive and sincere discussion.
On the day of mains result, I was hurting because I didn't get in and went for a walk, I met an acquaintance on the way who happens to be from SC category, she was delighted on her mains success and rightfully so but then she went on for about 5 mins on how noone from her library managed to clear mains except her and how first attempt students are flocking her for tips and she was so so smug about the fact that only she qualified. I never had any bitterness about reservations prior to that but that day I felt angry and jealous of her because she comes from a much better socio economic background than me but still she had to score way lesser than me for the exact same exam with even more resources than I could afford. So, more often than not the anger of UR category students isn't really towards the whole community but it's the personal experiences and severe frustration of extremely high competition for UR seats where not so genius students like me feel like it's unattainable.
You know, experiences like these have to be shared and welcomed. Stories from all sides need to be heard and shared to have a comprehensive overview of things and not get stuck in echo chambers. You wrote your heart out openly and put up the issue you faced with the aspects where the system seems to fail. We can have dialogues and discussions nicely. I am happy that you did not curse or taunt and chose a much nicer way. Cheers! :)
to me tabse kya kh rha tha :P :D
plus i vehemently disagree with some of your views on reservation and your fears- ki UR blow up the 5% non deserving ones to bring down the whole system. but im all ears. and respect and enjoy the arguments a lot.
My simple point again being the thought process you have is alien to those who have had bitter personal experiences regarding reservation. How do we make them see what you see when we are ourselves blind to their plight, perceived or real?
Everywhere, discussions and civilized debates are considered for a healthy exchange of ideas. Nobody here is saying do not talk about it or do not put your point, but taunting is no way no?
We can discuss anything and everything, but nicely. It is no good justifying this kind of behaviour as a reflection of inside angst. It is akin to justifying violence towards others just because you feel something different.
There are as many ideas as there are heads on this earth. But it does not give one person to outright belittle just because they can.
Do you know why the belittling comes? Because there are no logical arguments on the other side. Violence, physical or verbal of any kind is needed when words aren't sufficient to make people agree to you.
Rules are made for the general populace and not for exceptional cases. There will be 95 "deserving" candidates for reservation who benefitted from the policy and people will turn a blind eye. There will be 5 cases where the parents are able and rich and the kids still get reservations. People will blow it out of proportion just because they want to attack the policy anyhow.
We follow a democracy, the basis for which is representation. SC, ST, and OBC are 70% of the population. Just do a simple social experiment. Next time you pass by any colony in cities, just look at the nameplates. You will hardly find 30% of the SC,ST,OBC there. Now move it up a notch, go through a comparatively richer colony and see the 30% come down further. In this capitalistic world, where money is a great decider of where you will end up, is it no enough evidence?
Secondly, you might say, okay but caste as a concept is not followed anymore. Then why in Mr Modi's government, out of 89 secretaries, there are 3 SC, 1 Dalit and 0 OBC?
Then, of the 93 additional secretaries in central government ministries, just six are SCs and five are STs, while there are no OBCs of this rank either.
Among the 275 joint secretaries, 13 (4.73 per cent) are SCs, nine (3.27 per cent) are STs and 19 belong to the OBC category.
(2019 data)
I have only given examples regarding UPSC posts. The point is not pulling up data and overloading it as I can do it all day. The point is that from birth even when you achieve some standing in life, caste matters. Such a serious topic requires proper decent discussions and not random rants based on half-truths.
Is humility too much to expect?
There are individual rights and community rights. The data you shared correctly points out the community specific representation problem. However, when the solution being offered to address these problems point towards proportional system of reservation, it takes away the individual right of competing for the 40% of the seats. The individual rights of people benefitting from the proposal are unaffected while the community rights increase.
This is what happened when the Mandal commission recommendations were enforced. Most of the UR people preparing for this exam feel their individual rights are being taken away and the typical solution of "Just work harder bro" doesn't address the cause of the resentment. Additionally, they can't freely express their points since they are a minority in numbers and they'd be called casteist for expressing their point.
@NOLEisGOAT bhai tabhi aapse kuch kaha bhi nahi. :P
Ap disagree karo, baat rakho, sab karo, bas kharab tareeke se baat na karo is all I request to all the people on either side of the spectrum :)
Bhai perhaps thats because he didnt have anyone else to confide in? and why are you projecting it like he did something wrong? in the worst case he was seeking attention. even so are we so consumed in ourselves that we cant be sensitive to other peoples suffering? whether we like them or not? plus lets not be naive. by bringing it up now, during the heated rebuttal, you were indirectly saying "this guy has a history of depression and negative ideas. dont take him seriously. hes not mentally stable". passive aggressive. even when your side of the argument has valid points to counter him easily. if you really did care you would have sent a personal mail, rather than sugarcoat your hate as genuine concern.
Did I say anthing about his mental health? Read my comment again. I am not pointing to his mental health. I don't know him personally and I wouldn't comment on anyone's mental health anyway. Also I did not share anything confidential or personal. I had no intention of my words being interpreted otherwise and if my words give out wrong meaning, I apologize to Sunny. I want nothing but the best for him.
A question to Forum peeps: How would you feel if an IAS or IPS officer says exact words to you what Sunny said in his post. Don't answer here, answer it in your heart.
And this is not a hypothetical scenario. Sunny is about to become an officer. He is one step away (interview) of becoming one.
If Indian bureaucracy is filled with people for whom social justice and neutrality are just keywords to write in the ethics paper, then my friends its a death knell for sovereignity and integrity of our nation.
My simple point again being the thought process you have is alien to those who have had bitter personal experiences regarding reservation. How do we make them see what you see when we are ourselves blind to their plight, perceived or real?
Everywhere, discussions and civilized debates are considered for a healthy exchange of ideas. Nobody here is saying do not talk about it or do not put your point, but taunting is no way no?
We can discuss anything and everything, but nicely. It is no good justifying this kind of behaviour as a reflection of inside angst. It is akin to justifying violence towards others just because you feel something different.
There are as many ideas as there are heads on this earth. But it does not give one person to outright belittle just because they can.
Do you know why the belittling comes? Because there are no logical arguments on the other side. Violence, physical or verbal of any kind is needed when words aren't sufficient to make people agree to you.
Rules are made for the general populace and not for exceptional cases. There will be 95 "deserving" candidates for reservation who benefitted from the policy and people will turn a blind eye. There will be 5 cases where the parents are able and rich and the kids still get reservations. People will blow it out of proportion just because they want to attack the policy anyhow.
We follow a democracy, the basis for which is representation. SC, ST, and OBC are 70% of the population. Just do a simple social experiment. Next time you pass by any colony in cities, just look at the nameplates. You will hardly find 30% of the SC,ST,OBC there. Now move it up a notch, go through a comparatively richer colony and see the 30% come down further. In this capitalistic world, where money is a great decider of where you will end up, is it no enough evidence?
Secondly, you might say, okay but caste as a concept is not followed anymore. Then why in Mr Modi's government, out of 89 secretaries, there are 3 SC, 1 Dalit and 0 OBC?
Then, of the 93 additional secretaries in central government ministries, just six are SCs and five are STs, while there are no OBCs of this rank either.
Among the 275 joint secretaries, 13 (4.73 per cent) are SCs, nine (3.27 per cent) are STs and 19 belong to the OBC category.
(2019 data)
I have only given examples regarding UPSC posts. The point is not pulling up data and overloading it as I can do it all day. The point is that from birth even when you achieve some standing in life, caste matters. Such a serious topic requires proper decent discussions and not random rants based on half-truths.
Is humility too much to expect?
There are individual rights and community rights. The data you shared correctly points out the community specific representation problem. However, when the solution being offered to address these problems point towards proportional system of reservation, it takes away the individual right of competing for the 40% of the seats. The individual rights of people benefitting from the proposal are unaffected while the community rights increase.
This is what happened when the Mandal commission recommendations were enforced. Most of the UR people preparing for this exam feel their individual rights are being taken away and the typical solution of "Just work harder bro" doesn't address the cause of the resentment. Additionally, they can't freely express their points since they are a minority in numbers and they'd be called casteist for expressing their point.
In many ways where community rights are enablers of individual rights, is a strict separation of the two viable?
Secondly, if community-based ties are of great social importance in a system, won't individual rights always suffer no matter what system?
@NOLEisGOAT Maybe it is justified. But should our first instinct be to take a dig at the reserved candidates? Or to consider for a second, why did it had to be this way? Why is our society, our institutions so discriminatory? Why no anger against politicians who instead of working for the actual upliftment of such communities resort to last minute pre-poll announcements and sheer tokenism? Also, just getting a seat at IIT is not winning at life. Even in urban areas, its not the case that there isn't any caste based discrimination - it happens daily, just in a "veiled" fashion.
You talk about veiled fashion- I have seen it. In my village people form the neighbouring SC community however old they are not allowed to sit on the chair and some young lads sit on chair in front of them. I didn't knew it as I haven't seen it earlier but when I saw that happening in front of me , couldn't just hold up my anger as well as my frustation of being trapped in this kind of society where you cannot even raise voice against the wrong doings.
- similarly there have been a casteist slur very common in my area "chamar" (sorry for using this word- but this is a caste! All my life I thought this was a abusive word only- thats how we grow up) ,i see people so loosely using this word (in a derogatory manner) to whosoever does something unhygenic so to say .
Its prevalent people , come in UP you would see it. And how much you try you cannot chnage this , I tried in my family but to no avail. They understand its wrong but they can't change it.
@Arsene thank you so much for pointing out the problem with that scene. It was very underhanded and cheap of tvf to attack people with disabilities in their attempt to bring up reservation.
The fact that it got entirely ignored in our discussion yesterday also points to the lack of awareness among us here. I have seen many disparaging comments about quotas under youtube videos of candidates with disabilities who clear the exam. Thank you for bringing it up.
@Arsene thank you so much for pointing out the problem with that scene. It was very underhanded and cheap of tvf to attack people with disabilities in their attempt to bring up reservation.
The fact that it got entirely ignored in our discussion yesterday also points to the lack of awareness among us here. I have seen many disparaging comments about quotas under youtube videos of candidates with disabilities who clear the exam. Thank you for bringing it up.
Yeah Yeah! See, we are just getting so many wrongs in just the last episode - gender , caste and now disability! And then people saysab changa si.
Do you have a meme for this?@Villanelle :p
Villanelle,
nerdslayer,
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